Greatest Boxing Match.

Friday on my mind

Friday on my mind

girk1 said:
Well as a laymen & not a historian.

I know it may be hard for some today to believe(considering Black prominece in todays sports) but Black Americans were generally considered physically inferior to Whites at the turn of the 20th cenury. It was thought that Blacks could not physically nor mentally stand toe to toe with a White man in a boxing Ring. :dunno:
Jack Johson smashed this myth of Black inferiority when he became the 1st Black Heavyweight Champ & completely destroyed a revolving door of "Great White Hopes"(as they were called) for seven(7) straight years between 1908-1915.

He did this during a time when Blacks could be lynched for saying the wrong thing to a White person(especially in the South),daring to look at a White woman,etc....Yet Johnson would taunt his White opponents in the Ring,taunt the media ringside who despised him , taunt the White fans who came to see him lose & then leave the fight with one of his many White wives/girlfriends. He was White America's worst nightmare personified.

He was Muhammed Ali 50 years before Ali. Johson was extremely flamboyant ,garish stlye(gold teeth ,fancy cars/clothes/women/clubs)predicted the round he would knock out his opponent,confident & basically drove a disgusted White America nuts for 7 years. (Even set off race riots in 1909 which killed early 30 people when he beat Jack Jeffries)

He was so despised by Whites(& equally adored by most Blacks) that another Black would not get a shot at the title for over twenty years(Joe Louis who was much more humble & accepted by Whites) ,but Johnson had already defeated the myths about Black Athletes decades before Joe Louis.



I would recommend getting a dvd copy of the Johnson biography: "UNFORGIVEABLE BLACKNESS" by Ken Burns.( I found a used one at Amazon for $9). A book by the same name also by Jeffry(?) Ward .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLE5JxGwIuk
Click to expand...

I've seen the Johnson thing couple times,it is very good.

Best fight I think was the 1st Ali-Frazier fight at least among heavyweights.It was only close cause it was Ali's 1st fight after the lay off due to refusing to be drafted.The next two Ali handled Joe much better.But Joe was ready that 1st fight.
Ali IMO greatest heavy of all time.
 
minidog

minidog

Friday on my mind said:
I've seen the Johnson thing couple times,it is very good.

Best fight I think was the 1st Ali-Frazier fight at least among heavyweights.It was only close cause it was Ali's 1st fight after the lay off due to refusing to be drafted.The next two Ali handled Joe much better.But Joe was ready that 1st fight.
Ali IMO greatest heavy of all time.
Click to expand...

49 n 0
speaks for itself
 
Friday on my mind

Friday on my mind

minidog said:
49 n 0
speaks for itself
Click to expand...


No doubt he beat eveybody in his era.But that doesn't make him the greatest ever.IMO in there primes a fight between Ali and Marciano would not have even been close.Ali had the speed of a middle weight but was also much bigger then Marciano.But again you can't take anything away from Rocky he beat eveybody they put in front of him.It's just that the 50s did not nearly produce the competetion and level of fighters in the heavyweight ranks that the 60s and 70s did with people like Ali,Frazier,Norton,Foreman and even Holmes all of whom I think Rocky would have had his hands full trying to fight.
 
TheAdmiral

TheAdmiral

Jim Corbett vs. John L. Sullivan
 
maildude

maildude

Postal Paranoiac
I once saw Gentleman Jim fight an eskimo fellow with his bare hands. The bout lasted forty rounds. Of course back then if a bout lasted less than fifteen rounds, we'd demand our nickel back!

--Montgomery Burns
 
AlBundy33

AlBundy33

Blackpusslover said:
Arturo Gatti vs Micky Ward,the first fight although all three are great!The 9th round of the first fight is perhaps the best round Ive ever seen.Another classic is Archie Moore vs Yvonne Durelle for the worlds Lighthevy title! Absolute wars both fights!
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you on the Gatti/Ward fights! They were so great! Probably the best of the modern time.
 
G

girk1

Closed Account
Friday on my mind said:
No doubt he beat eveybody in his era.But that doesn't make him the greatest ever.IMO in there primes a fight between Ali and Marciano would not have even been close.Ali had the speed of a middle weight but was also much bigger then Marciano.But again you can't take anything away from Rocky he beat eveybody they put in front of him.It's just that the 50s did not nearly produce the competetion and level of fighters in the heavyweight ranks that the 60s and 70s did with people like Ali,Frazier,Norton,Foreman and even Holmes all of whom I think Rocky would have had his hands full trying to fight.
Click to expand...

Can't get enough of this scene.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rdjblkRkoPU&feature=related

Ken Burns does some really great documentaries & I would als recommend his splendid JAZZ also if you hadn't seen it.:glugglug:

Do you agree with my assessment that Jack Johnson is perhaps the most important Athlete (socially)of the 20th century? Joe Louis did nothing ,for the most part, that Johnson hadn't already done. And Jackie Robison I felt was more of a social experiment in that he was "chosen' to integrate Baseball yet he was not the best Negro league player. Being an UCLA Alumnus & military officer he had the wherewithal/discipline to handle this task better perhaps than the brash Paige & troubled Gibson.

Back on track I give the little fellows some love

Saddler V Pep One of four classic fights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpKHFZ6ixKs
 
Friday on my mind

Friday on my mind

girk1 said:
Can't get enough of this scene.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rdjblkRkoPU&feature=related

Ken Burns does some really great documentaries & I would als recommend his splendid JAZZ also if you hadn't seen it.:glugglug:

Do you agree with my assessment that Jack Johnson is perhaps the most important Athlete (socially)of the 20th century? Joe Louis did nothing ,for the most part, that Johnson hadn't already done. And Jackie Robison I felt was more of a social experiment in that he was "chosen' to integrate Baseball yet he was not the best Negro league player. Being an UCLA Alumnus & military officer he had the wherewithal/discipline to handle this task better perhaps than the brash Paige & troubled Gibson.

Back on track I give the little fellows some love

Saddler V Pep One of four classic fights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpKHFZ6ixKs
Click to expand...


Saw the jazz one,liked it but not as much as some other things he has done.I agree Johnson much more tranformative then Louis.But after Johnson,something as benign and unoffensive to white america as Louis was probably all that could have had the acceptance he had.Louis was just a step in the path to blacks asserting themselves in society.Joe did not like when Ali challeged white america,probably saw that as a denounciation of the way Joe had done it.And your right Jackie Robinson was not the best black player of his time but he was the one seen by Rickey as being the one who could take the abuse and succeed.He was right there.Funny you should mention Jackie,I just recently saw the movie of his life made in the 50s that he starred in again.At the end the person playing the voice of Branch Rickey(owner of the dodgers) talked about how this is america and anyone could grow up to be President or a dodger.It struck me that was over 50 years ago and that we are now just getting the 1st black as a candidate for president for one of the 2 party's.We have made progress but some of it has been painfully slow.
 
G

girk1

Closed Account
Friday on my mind said:
Saw the jazz one,liked it but not as much as some other things he has done.I agree Johnson much more tranformative then Louis.But after Johnson,something as benign and unoffensive to white america as Louis was probably all that could have had the acceptance he had.Louis was just a step in the path to blacks asserting themselves in society.Joe did not like when Ali challeged white america,probably saw that as a denounciation of the way Joe had done it.And your right Jackie Robinson was not the best black player of his time but he was the one seen by Rickey as being the one who could take the abuse and succeed.He was right there.Funny you should mention Jackie,I just recently saw the movie of his life made in the 50s that he starred in again.At the end the person playing the voice of Branch Rickey(owner of the dodgers) talked about how this is america and anyone could grow up to be President or a dodger.It struck me that was over 50 years ago and that we are now just getting the 1st black as a candidate for president for one of the 2 party's.We have made progress but some of it has been painfully slow.
Click to expand...
I guess as a Jazz/Blues fan I was simply thrilled with seeing the history of a dying music I love spotlighted. I have yet to see Burn's THE WAR & I will try to find a copy.

You are right "transformative" may be a better word to describe Johnson's social impact as the athletic inferiority was virtually dismissed, but he unlike Jackie Robinson/Joe Louis did little to nothing to improve race relations & actually put a little salt in the wounds I guess.
 
hedonis

hedonis

There have been so many good ones! One that always makes me feel good watching it is Holyfield/Tyson I. Especially because every time I watch it, I have to listen to the biased announcers praising and carrying on about Tyson until it became apparent that well... things weren't going really well for Iron Mike.

And I never tire of watching Oscar De La Hoya beat the living piss out of that mouthy little prick Ricardo Mayorga. :D

H
 
minidog

minidog

girk1 said:
I guess as a Jazz/Blues fan I was simply thrilled with seeing the history of a dying music I love spotlighted. I have yet to see Burn's THE WAR & I will try to find a copy.

You are right "transformative" may be a better word to describe Johnson's social impact as the athletic inferiority was virtually dismissed, but he unlike Jackie Robinson/Joe Louis did little to nothing to improve race relations & actually put a little salt in the wounds I guess.
Click to expand...

So Louis/Schmeling wasnt that important:dunno:
a fight the WHOLE world was watching
rematch 1938 june22nd
 
Last edited:
Overdrive

Overdrive

Banned
..when Marvin Hagler beat the hell out of Sugar Ray Leonard...judges must've been watching a different fight than i was.
 
prof_porn

prof_porn

That I ever saw:

Ali-Frazier 3

That I saw in real time (ie on TV live etc)

For excitement:

Gatti-Ward 1

I love boxing. Its one of my passions.
 
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