Gas Prices Drop Even Though We Voted For Obama

[sean miguel]

I'm half pacific islander and half white.

I was trying to be vague but Pacific islander is apparently the wrong term. I was born in the Philippines. I guess that's classified as asian.

I don't care. I just want to fuck Charmane Star.

 

[xfire]

I don't think it'll ever be reduced to irrelevancy, even with an influx of immigrants from south of the border. There are too many people (not enough IMO) in this country who reject the left's agenda for the GOP to ever become irrelevant. With the exception of Mark Warner in Virginia and Ben Nelson in Florida, the GOP hold all U.S. senatorial seats and governorships in the south.

And the republicans hold the highest majority they've had in the house since 1946. The democrats are closer to being irrelevant than they've ever have. But the pendulum swings both ways. I learned that in 2006.

There isn't any merit in the policies championed by the GOP, trickle down is an abject failure, the jury is in on that charge, the last thirty years have, with the exception of Clinton and Obama, been the worst economic downward spiral in the history of economies and that's all thanks to Reaganomics. GOP social policy is a menu of intolerance and bigotry, and yes, that's a rapidly shrinking demographic that Jagger articulated better than I should attempt.

I appreciate that you think you're conservative, and you might truly be, but the current GOP only uses conservatism as means to an end and I would suggest to you that you're better than that. Show me a conservative that's a true conservationist and I'll show you a fish out of water.

 

[Jagger69]

As in gay marriage? Obama was against gay marriage while candidate and president. Didn't the majority of California voters vote against it? You can hardly accuse them of being conservative.

Yes....and as in gay rights in general. I forgot to mention women as well so add them to the exclusion list I already submitted (even though you can find plenty of women who are conservative).

I never referred to Obama as the paragon of liberal ideals (he most certainly isn't in fact) so you can't hold him as the gold standard in that regard. Regarding the voters in California....depends which side of the electorate is more energized on any given issue. I know a shitload of Californians who are hard-core conservative just as I know plenty of Texans who hold liberal views. Hell, you're a conservative living in Oregon so you are clearly aware of what I speak. :quack:

Bear in mind that it's not me that's painting the conservatives in an exclusionary light....it's them. Also, when I refer to "conservatives" in that manner it is primarily in a social context. There are a lot of conservative viewpoints on other issues that are not by necessity exclusionary so please don't think that I believe all conservative ideals are inherently wrong. On the contrary, I share a great many of them from an economic stance. However, their social agenda is generally abominable from my perspective.

 

[sean miguel]

Regarding the voters in California....depends which side of the electorate is more energized on any given issue. I know a shitload of Californians who are hard-core conservative just as I know plenty of Texans who hold liberal views. Hell, you're a conservative living in Oregon so you are clearly aware of what I speak. :quack:

Most of California's Black Voters Backed Gay Marriage Ban

By Karl Vick and Ashley Surdin
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, November 7, 2008

LOS ANGELES, Nov. 6 -- Any notion that Tuesday's election represented a liberal juggernaut must overcome a detail from the voting booths of California: The same voters who turned out strongest for Barack Obama also drove a stake through the heart of same-sex marriage.


Seven in 10 African Americans who went to the polls voted yes on Proposition 8, the ballot measure overruling a state Supreme Court judgment that legalized same-sex marriage and brought 18,000 gay and lesbian couples to Golden State courthouses in the past six months.

Similar measures passed easily in Florida and Arizona. It was closer in California, but no ethnic group anywhere rejected the sanctioning of same-sex unions as emphatically as the state's black voters, according to exit polls. Fifty-three percent of Latinos also backed Proposition 8, overcoming the bare majority of white Californians who voted to let the court ruling stand.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/06/AR2008110603880.html

So minorities, and especially blacks, are at odds with white liberals on this issue.

 

[sean miguel]

I appreciate that you think you're conservative, and You Might truly be, but the current GOP only uses conservatism as means to an end and I would suggest to you that you're better than that. Show me a conservative that's a true conservationist and I'll show you a fish out of water.

If I had to nail it down to a label it would be Libertarianservative lol. And living in one of the most beautiful regions in this great country (Washington State), I am a conservationist, like the late great democrat, Henry Jackson.

 

[Jagger69]

So minorities, and especially blacks, are at odds with white liberals on this issue.

OK. That surprises you? Does every conservative march in lockstep on every issue?

As the great Will Rogers once said, "I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a democrat".

Oh...and sorry, I thought you lived in Oregon. My bad....

 

[sean miguel]

OK. That surprises you? Does every conservative march in lockstep on every issue?

As the great Will Rogers once said, "I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a democrat".

Oh...and sorry, I thought you lived in Oregon. My bad....

No, but my point was opposition to gay marriage doesn't apply to just conservatives. How can you single out republicans for being against gay marriage when a major voting bloc of the democrat party including the president himself was against it?

 

[Jagger69]

No, but my point was opposition to gay marriage doesn't apply to just conservatives. How can you single out republicans for being against gay marriage when a major voting bloc of the democrat party including the president himself was against it?

Allow me to clarify this for you. I am not singling out republicans....I am singling out conservatives regarding social issues. The bloc of black voters who voted against the proposition aren't liberals on that issue, they are conservatives.

 

[sean miguel]

Allow me to clarify this for you. I am not singling out republicans....I am singling out conservatives regarding social issues. The bloc of black voters who voted against the proposition aren't liberals on that issue, they are conservatives.

But that's convenient.

 

[Jagger69]

But that's convenient.

In what manner is that being convenient? It's just the truth.

 

[sean miguel]

In what manner is that being convenient? It's just the truth.

It wasn't the conservative base that sunk gay marriage in california, it was the liberal base. The irony.

But switch labels as you see fit.

 

[Jagger69]

It wasn't the conservative base that sunk gay marriage in california, it was the liberal base. The irony.

But switch labels as you see fit.

Dude, I just admitted to you that I myself, who most on this board would likely describe as a flaming liberal, have conservative viewpoints on many issues. And it wasn't the "liberal" base that sunk gay marriage as it applies to the black voters who were against the proposition, it was a "conservative" bloc of the democratic party as it pertained to that issue that did it. Do you think those same voters would vote predominantly republican or democratic in a presidential election? The two don't necessarily need to connect. Your error is to automatically connote "liberal" with "democrat" and "conservative" with "republican". Although I agree that, as a generalization, one might make those assumptions it's much more complex than that as it applies to individual issues. Do you think any people who would describe themselves in general as conservatives smoke pot, are against the war in Afghanistan or support a woman's right to do as she sees fit with her own body? Of course there are. Likewise, there are those who would be self-described as "liberal" who would support conservative outlooks on certain issues as well (like me).

Truth is, I really don't like generalized labels because we are all so individual in out viewpoints on so many different subjects that it defies specificity. You previously described yourself as a "libertarianconservative" or something similar. What does that tell you? Do you have absolutely zero views on certain matters that some might consider to be liberal in nature? If you truly have libertarian leanings, the answer can only be yes.

I'm not switching labels on anyone and the fact that a significant bloc of black voters voted against the gay marriage prop in CA is indicative only of the fact that those voters expressed a conservative voice in that election. As I said, come time to vote for a president, statistics say that blacks overwhelmingly vote for the democratic nominee regardless of how they may have voted on that prop. As you said, Obama himself was once against gay marriage so....:dunno: Make what you will of that.

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/06/AR2008110603880.html

Most of California's Black Voters Backed Gay Marriage Ban

By Karl Vick and Ashley Surdin
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, November 7, 2008

LOS ANGELES, Nov. 6 -- Any notion that Tuesday's election represented a liberal juggernaut must overcome a detail from the voting booths of California: The same voters who turned out strongest for Barack Obama also drove a stake through the heart of same-sex marriage.


Seven in 10 African Americans who went to the polls voted yes on Proposition 8, the ballot measure overruling a state Supreme Court judgment that legalized same-sex marriage and brought 18,000 gay and lesbian couples to Golden State courthouses in the past six months.

Similar measures passed easily in Florida and Arizona. It was closer in California, but no ethnic group anywhere rejected the sanctioning of same-sex unions as emphatically as the state's black voters, according to exit polls. Fifty-three percent of Latinos also backed Proposition 8, overcoming the bare majority of white Californians who voted to let the court ruling stand.

So minorities, and especially blacks, are at odds with white liberals on this issue.

True. As a Californian I remember so well. That's tolerance for 'ya. As for me I'd rather 2 queers get married that some loser impregnate another woman and skip town avoiding his responsibilities. I have more respect for the sodomites.

 

[sean miguel]

Your error is to automatically connote "liberal" with "democrat" and "conservative" with "republican".

You made the same correlation in your earlier post:

However, overall, the republicans have painted themselves into a corner that is guaranteed to make them a minority so I think your claims about the demise of the liberal viewpoint are greatly exaggerated. Gay? Conservatives don't want you. Black? They don't want you. Hispanic? They don't want you. Non-Christian? They don't want you

We'll see what happens in the presidential election in 2 years but I will concede that, typically, old, white rural people are more likely to vote than younger, ethnically and racially diverse and urban constituents are. It's the greatest hope the republicans have going forward and, all things considered, not at all an unlikely outcome for them to prevail. It's happened before....it'll happen again.

The old, white rural conservative. But in California, it was 7 to 10, the black, urban liberal who voted against gay marriage.

Your claim was opposition to gay marriage was a hallmark of conservatives (read: white conservatives). My claim is that it wasn't exclusive to them.

When I "switched sides" so to speak I went all in. I'm less engaged and interested now but I'm telling you, at no point did I get from the right that minorities weren't welcome. But then I was looked at as an individual instead of as part of a group.

 

[sean miguel]

To the OP, sorry for derailing this thread earlier. Back on topic, yeah, presidents get too much credit and blame for gas prices (youtube democrats blaming bush for gas prices). OPEC is hurting and Putin has to be hurting. $2+/gallon was a shock to me at the time. Getting below that would be another shock.

 

[sean miguel]

I'm less engaged and interested now

That's actually an understatement. I'm pretending I care about this shit but I don't. The world is horrible, people for the most part suck, bad shit is gonna happen. That's not gonna change. It doesn't mater who's in charge.

I'm just here to get my perv on. Carry on :hatsoff:

 

[Jagger69]

You made the same correlation in your earlier post:

The old, white rural conservative. But in California, it was 7 to 10, the black, urban liberal who voted against gay marriage.

Your claim was opposition to gay marriage was a hallmark of conservatives (read: white conservatives). My claim is that it wasn't exclusive to them.

When I "switched sides" so to speak I went all in. I'm less engaged and interested now but I'm telling you, at no point did I get from the right that minorities weren't welcome. But then I was looked at as an individual instead of as part of a group.

OK, I'll concede that opposition to gay marriage isn't exclusive to "old, white rural whites" (a bad stereotype, sorry). So what? I too will apologize to the OP for hijacking the thread in this direction so I'll simply say that it is a fact that blacks, Hispanics and the LGBT crowd overwhelmingly vote democratic on a consistent basis. Obviously, there is something about the republican party that they find unacceptable. Unfortunately, with a 2-party system, the only viable alternative to either party is the other. The true meaning of party choice in general gets lost in the complexities that make up each one of us as individuals rather than as large groups and on individual issues rather than broad labels such as conservative or liberal.

That's actually an understatement.

Glad to hear....I concur!

 

[Mayhem]

To the OP, sorry for derailing this thread earlier. Back on topic, yeah, presidents get too much credit and blame for gas prices (youtube democrats blaming bush for gas prices). OPEC is hurting and Putin has to be hurting. $2+/gallon was a shock to me at the time. Getting below that would be another shock.

Every time a thread of mine gets derailed, I remember the ones that I've done the same too. I'm not allowed to cast any stones in this regard.

The subliminal point to this thread is the claims made by political candidates. As a Liberal Democrat I'm going to, of course, jump on the ones made by the Consevative opposition. But I'm not so obtuse that I don't know full well that candidates/incumbents on both/all sides of the political spectrum make them.

I have clear memories of how seriously Newt Gingrich took himself and his claims in the last election. And he and the rest of the GOP candidates (as well as people on this board) jumped head first into the price of gas/petroleum. And people bought into it.

We'll have another Presidential campaign coming up here soon. How much bullshit are we going to take from any of the people running? I, along with everyone else, am depressed that my side seems to be stuck with Hillary. I'm sure I'm going to absolutely hate whoever the Republicans put forward. But even if Elizabeth Warren responds to my long distance Jedi mind trick and runs, I'm not taking anything that anyone says at face value. I'm not going to at every bogus claim or bogus accusation anyone makes. When my side crosses the line, I'm going to say so.

Anyone with me?

 

[Rey C.]

The car I just got gets about 17 miles per gallon (of premium) on a good day. I'm thinking about removing the fuel door since it stays open all the time anyway. So I'm pretty happy right now. But one thing that seems to be a concern is that if the price of oil continues to plummet, it could cause a shock to certain sectors of the economy (domestic and global). IMO, it would be great if gas and oil prices drifted to a lower "new normal" longer term. But if it drops like a rock, that could actually set up a domino effect that could hurt the economy.

For now, it's great though! So let's upgrade to Stage 2 over Christmas and get 14 miles to the gallon! :nanner:

 

[Jack Davenport]

Thank you frackers!