Frontline: Bush's War

[AFA]

This is a two part series on the 5th anniversary of the invasion of Iraq which clearly makes evident the lies and deceptions presented to the American public by the Bush administration which led to the beginning of the war 5 years ago. It is also clearly noted how credible information which directly contradicted the official statements of the Bush administration's premeditated plan were disregarded and how fraudulent information was created and ****** to major newspapers and the media to support the ****** with no merit or basis in the real world.

Information;
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The film, free to watch online, 5 hours;
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[Jagger69]

Thanks for bringing this up, AFA. This is a "must see" for anyone who is interested in the truth.

 

[AFA]

What amazes me is that this same information from the same insiders has been so widely publicized in books, newpapers and TV, and chief still get up there last week and gives a speech about the economy he has destroyed and still brings up 9/11 and what a bastard Saddam was. Man does he need to look in the mirror, but he can't see what just about everyone else alive sees. What a fool no matter what any advisors say, like Gen. Shinzeki when his "several hundred thousand troops" was called ridiculous, Cheney was there to whisper in his ear. The film strongly makes the point that Cheney is pulling his strings from the start.

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[scubamike]

Thanks for bringing this up, AFA. This is a "must see" for anyone who is interested in the truth.

it may be your truth but not my truth

 

[AFA]

it may be your truth but not my truth

Well believe what you want :dunno:

I'll take the views of those who were there, eyewitnesses, and reliable journalists putting their reputations on the line, to crude statements with no foundation that Saddam was linked to 9/11, Al Queda and weapons of mass destruction and uranium that didn't exist in S. Africa, etc. etc, etc. When the plan to go into Iraq was in place a long time before. Mohammed Atta was also never linked to Iraqis.

I also saw the film. In reality it's like all the other films from reliable sources.

 

[Civickiller80]

This is a two part series on the 5th anniversary of the invasion of Iraq which clearly makes evident the lies and deceptions presented to the American public by the Bush administration which led to the beginning of the war 5 years ago. It is also clearly noted how credible information which directly contradicted the official statements of the Bush administration's premeditated plan were disregarded and how fraudulent information was created and ****** to major newspapers and the media to support the ****** with no merit or basis in the real world.

Information;
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The film, free to watch online, 5 hours;
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bookmarked....thanks AFA I'm gonna definitely watch this....

 

[scubamike]

Well believe what you want :dunno:

I'll take the views of those who were there, eyewitnesses, and reliable journalists putting their reputations on the line, to crude statements with no foundation that Saddam was linked to 9/11, Al Queda and weapons of mass destruction and uranium that didn't exist in S. Africa, etc. etc, etc. When the plan to go into Iraq was in place a long time before. Mohammed Atta was also never linked to Iraqis.

I also saw the film. In reality it's like all the other films from reliable sources.

I respect your opinion. I actually checked into it too. I just don't feel these views to be credible enough. I hope you do not consider "Fahrenheit 911" a reliable source. That was a comedy.

 

[AFA]

I don't agree it was a comedy, it had merit, but it wasn't the Frontline report in the title of this thread, watchable online by clicking the link.

I used to believe in Santa Claus because I was told he was real until I started doing my own research.

 

[scubamike]

I don't agree it was a comedy, it had merit, but it wasn't the Frontline report in the title of this thread, watchable online by clicking the link.

I used to believe in Santa Claus because I was told he was real until I started doing my own research.

I'm viewing the videos as I type this. It is interesting but I'm going to look for further evidence to back this up.

 

[scubamike]

I do not feel that Iraq and 9/11 were connected. However, I also do not see the Iraq war as being created because of 9/11. Iraq has harbored terrorists just like the Taliban. Also, Iraq was THOUGHT to have stored nuclear weapons at that time, and that ended up being an intelligence error. Geographically, Iraq was also chosen due to its centralness in the Middle East which would affect all of its surrounding neighbors.

The biggest thing that bothers me about the war (at least I hope it is not an objective) is the probability of spreading Christianity. I believe it completely wrong to change a culture's views on religion. That is one reason there is alot of resistance in the war. I am not a fan of Christianity (according to them, I'm going to hell just for posting on Freeones) and do not want to see it spread anymore. I kinda hope it would shrink some. We have MTV and others to thank on that I guess.

This subject is interesting though. There are so many different views on what is going on and it is hard to believe in a certain view to be the authentic one.

 

[VidKing]

Iraq also (or so I "heard") paid suicide bombers to go to Israel.

I don't understand how Christianity got thrown into this. Do you really believe Iraq was invaded to convert people? How does an army invading a country convert people? Imagine if Iran invaded us and didn't ***** us to take up Islam. Would I all of a sudden have a nice view towards Islam? If anything, it has the opposite effect on their view of Christianity. Even though the US is a post-Christian society, they still view us as Christian as we view them as Muslim. So everything they do reflects on Islam and everything we do reflects on Christianity.

AFA, I saw the show and as soon as it came on I thought to myself, I bet AFA is watching this right now. I didn't watch it all but I did tape the rest. I like it so far, but I don't think it's as clear cut as presented. The reason is, all we're getting is one side (except for John Yoo). We're getting the views of those who are no longer in the administration. So basically we're getting people pissed off. We're not getting the view of the people not angry. I guess I think more time is needed to have a more wholistic, comprehensive view of what happened.

I mean, we did hear Saddam Hussein say in his interrogation that he was pretending to have WMD's to prevent a war with Iran. He wanted them scared of him. So, I believe it was legitimate that the US gov did believe he had them. As the show noted, the pro-American Iraqi group in the US fed false information about Iraq because they wanted to gain power there.

I guess we'll see with time, but it certainly doesn't look good from the Frontline series, though. Iraq really did divert us from Osama. It's a shame that Rumsfeld didn't get that a small amount of troops would be insufficient in getting OBL in Afghanistan. But, thanks so much "ally" Pakistan for covering your border for us.

 

[bodie54]

I don't understand how Christianity got thrown into this.

"Last time we only took 8,000 Arabic Bibles to Iraq. In future missions the goal is one million."

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[bodie54]

Also, though this wasn't about directly prosthelytizing among the Iraqi people, it's message and intent were nauseatingly clear:

Meanwhile, Marines in Iraq are being given a pamphlet called "A Christian's Duty," with tear-out prayer cards to mail to the White House. One says: "Pray that the President and his advisers will be strong and courageous to do what is right regardless of critics."

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[AFA]

I'm viewing the videos as I type this. It is interesting but I'm going to look for further evidence to back this up.

There is an enormous amount of data on this. I have a list of some 30-40 books, and dozens of videos I've posted links to free online, some more credible than others, but the names of people interviewed in the film come up again and again, it becomes redundant. They are all quoted for the same thing. I read numerous books last Summer all in full agreement, and when typing in a title at Amazon, up pop 6-10 others. Behind the scenes of this administration is news, for many apparent reasons as they are condoning ******* while stating what a bad guy Saddam was for doing the same.

A good starter on Iraq is Fiasco by Thomas Hicks interviewed in the film, and I've listed other titles and editors descriptions here;
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Some people want to believe the government knows more than they do and should make their decisions for them, or that you're not a good American if you question their motives, but I think when their actions become above the law and corrupt to this level on the world stage, it's impossible for me to lie to cover their asses.

I do not feel that Iraq and 9/11 were connected. However, I also do not see the Iraq war as being created because of 9/11. Iraq has harbored terrorists just like the Taliban. Also, Iraq was THOUGHT to have stored nuclear weapons at that time, and that ended up being an intelligence error. Geographically, Iraq was also chosen due to its centralness in the Middle East which would affect all of its surrounding neighbors.

The film brings out again, that the media was getting unsourced information from the White House, publishing it in newspapers and then the various cabinet members would refer to the articles, as the New York Times said, "....", or in the Washington Post, and quote, "...." Colin Powell eventually became a frontman to provide information he knew was inaccurate because of his high level of credibility at that time. Members of the CIA watched in awe while statements were made publicly on TV that they knew were false.

While shouting peace and happiness and stop terrorism and Christian beliefs, these guys are making a run for the oil. If they want to help innocents, why are they ignoring Darfur? Certainly a much smaller investment in manpower and money.

 

[Friday on my mind]

I do not feel that Iraq and 9/11 were connected. However, I also do not see the Iraq war as being created because of 9/11. Iraq has harbored terrorists just like the Taliban. Also, Iraq was THOUGHT to have stored nuclear weapons at that time, and that ended up being an intelligence error. Geographically, Iraq was also chosen due to its centralness in the Middle East which would affect all of its surrounding neighbors.

The biggest thing that bothers me about the war (at least I hope it is not an objective) is the probability of spreading Christianity. I believe it completely wrong to change a culture's views on religion. That is one reason there is alot of resistance in the war. I am not a fan of Christianity (according to them, I'm going to hell just for posting on Freeones) and do not want to see it spread anymore. I kinda hope it would shrink some. We have MTV and others to thank on that I guess.

This subject is interesting though. There are so many different views on what is going on and it is hard to believe in a certain view to be the authentic one.

After 9/11 it has been said that the US could have been led to go to war with several different arab countries,based on the anger for the attacks.We choose Iraq but it could have been Libya,Syria,Saudi Arabia as well as Iran.To be honest out of those the Saudis would have seemed the likely choice since most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis.
The idea that Saddam was haboring fundamental Islamic extremists like the Taliban is not supported by any facts.Saddam was a secularist and hated those people.That's why we supported him in his war with Iran which is fundamentalist run state.
And the big lie about Saddam and nukes and wmds has been shattered at this point and many felt at the time those claims were just fearmongering by the Bush administration to whip up support for the war.Rice and Cheney spoke of mushroom clouds.They knew where the wmds were they said before the invasion,it wasn't bad intelligence but pure deceit on their part.
And the for the most part most of the rest of the world didn't buy it eitheir.
But the idea that we went to iraq for its geographical location I think is correct,we want permanent bases due to the oil.
On this latest documentary I haven't watched it and really don't think I need to.This is probably just a re-hash of the many documentary's that have come before it.As AFA has stated anyone who has read some of the many books and watched some of the many documentaries already knows the deal.

I'm might watch the documentary at some point just to see what i am sure are a few new facts of how it all went down tactically.But to understand what the real motivation is for these things is I will again post what I think is the single most important documentary I have seen on the subject.

"Why we Fight"
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[BROSight]

Bush's war but it's Cheney's law, as for Rumsfeld he's pushing the New World Order agenda.

 

[jamrak]

I do not feel that Iraq and 9/11 were connected. However, I also do not see the Iraq war as being created because of 9/11. Iraq has harbored terrorists just like the Taliban. Also, Iraq was THOUGHT to have stored nuclear weapons at that time, and that ended up being an intelligence error. Geographically, Iraq was also chosen due to its centralness in the Middle East which would affect all of its surrounding neighbors.

The biggest thing that bothers me about the war (at least I hope it is not an objective) is the probability of spreading Christianity. I believe it completely wrong to change a culture's views on religion. That is one reason there is alot of resistance in the war. I am not a fan of Christianity (according to them, I'm going to hell just for posting on Freeones) and do not want to see it spread anymore. I kinda hope it would shrink some. We have MTV and others to thank on that I guess.
.

Where did you get the information about link between Iraq and taliban? :dunno:
As far as I know Saddam was a violent dictator, but under his rule Iraq was a secular state, and what he really managed to do was to keep in leash all that fanatically biased islamic activists. As his reign fell, all that radical ****** spawned and flowered using the opportunity of chaos, go-ahead times and all disorder that war brought to life. And I think it is one of the most bad results of war in Iraq, cuz secular dictator was better than discrete groups of terrorists of any kind that had infested the whole country with the flavour of radical islamic doctrines, Jihad and ****** methods of fighting against US Army, and a civil war at the same time. In fact US Invasion had created much more comfortable conditions for terrorists in Iraq than it were under Saddam's regime. Do not you think so?

The second thing that surprised me a lot was about spreading Christianity. I am totally puzzled... This is the first time I hear about that component of Iraq campaign! I even did not hear any people from Iraq complaining about it in mass media... I guess it never was in any plans, and the more so there is no way it can happen accidentally. I wonder what made you to come to an assumption like that?

 

[AFA]

The film makes the point that numerous military advisors, including one told to shut up, when he wouldn't go along with the plan to squash information contrary to what Cheney wanted people to believe. This has been a puppet show from before 9/11 and this fiasco continues to this day and probably into the next two decades. In the meantime they can't fund any national healthcare, Social Security, or cut income taxes, and probably will never pay off the debt. That's what makes me suspicious about new weapons development in spite of a probable coming depression. It enables leaders to make any policy they want if the President is legally always right, and gives him an even bigger saber to rattle in front of people who want him to pay his bills.

An awful lot of people, young and old, make choices of food or medicine daily and live below or at the level of poverty, while these guys reward themselves with nothing but the best from fringe benefits of the war.

 

[senob44]

While Bush's wars are hard to swallow and even tougher to keep down, he sure makes a good can of baked beans. Old fashioned Yale salt-peter recipe!
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[titsrock]

I watched this last night. Compelling. I found it a nice companion to "Fiasco" by Tom Ricks, which AFA referenced above and which I've read too.

I think the "Frontline" piece tried to make the case that Rummy wanted to pull the troops out ever since the "Mission Accomplished" speech but didn't because we had no plan for constructing an Iraqi Gov't. The "Frontline" piece made it seem as if Rummy kept finding people (like Jay Garner, Gen Casey, Paul Bremer etc) to publically "build a gov't" but when all these people tried too do that to the best of their abilities (and on the cheap), Rummy was there to screw them over "behind the scenes."

I have no doubt that Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney are the 2 Single reasons why we have ruined our credibility and pissed away trillions. They are the problem.

But the single takeaway for me, from that "Frontline" last night was how "clueless" and "out of touch" Dubya was from the post-Mission Accomplished events. He seemed really like a mannequin that was manipulated by Rummy/Cheney/Condi....

We had no reason to invade Iraq. The Middle East was better off with Saddam in control of that mess of a country.

We had a better case to invade and takeover Saudi Arabia---more oil than Iraq, more violent and fanatical than Iraq..etc. etc.