Former Israeli soldiers speak out

[CunningStunts]

Say what you want, but whether it was killing Germans or his own people, Stalin got shit done.

Hard to argue with that... Stalin killed more of his OWN people than the Germans did OTHER people...

 

[Trident1]

Say what you want, but whether it was killing Germans or his own people, Stalin got shit done.

Stalin's methods were worse than Hitler's. Sure he got shit done...like exterminating various groups including his rabid need to wipe out every Pole living in the Soviet Union.

 

[Facetious]

Here's my take on the matter. .

. .so you're doing some leisurely traveling and research in and around the West Bank . . and by golly, you've lost your passport!

Whose hands would you rather be in, the Israelis or the others?

I'm done.

 

[vodkazvictim]

Say what you want, but whether it was killing Germans or his own people, Stalin got shit done.

Did he now? You mean like famine in the Ukraine, weakening the Ukraine?
You mean like locking up the famous aircraft designer Tupolev?
Tupolev produced the bear, which has already provne itself capable of fulfilling the roles of strategic bomber, maritime reconnesance, AWACs, tanker and transport aircraft.
Stalin imprisoned and eliminated huge numbers of scientists and generals. The Soviet Union would've been immeasurably stronger without him.

Hard to argue with that... Stalin killed more of his OWN people than the Germans did OTHER people...

Yep.

Stalin's methods were worse than Hitler's. Sure he got shit done...like exterminating various groups including his rabid need to wipe out every Pole living in the Soviet Union.

He didn't attempt to kill EVERY Pole... Just most of 'em.

Here's my take on the matter. .

. .so you're doing some leisurely traveling and research in and around the West Bank . . and by golly, you've lost your passport!

Whose hands would you rather be in, the Israelis or the others?

I'm done.

Easy for you to say; if you were a Moslem with Egyptian features, it certainly wouldn't be the Israelis, however innocent you are.

 

[BioDefenseGrad]

They have no problem involving themselves in Western countries, Meesterperfect.

 

[BioDefenseGrad]

You're so wrong it even hurts your sister.
Had the americans not entered WW2 the Russians would've crushed Germany.
Knowing the Russians it's safe to assume that they would then have promptly exterminated the Jews.

Russian Jews were heavily involved in the communist revolution in Russia as well as communist coups in other countries, particularly Hungary. Even after Stalin came to power the Jews weren't exterminated and Jewish people have considerable wealth and influence in Russia today.

 

[meesterperfect]

You're so wrong it even hurts your sister.
Had the americans not entered WW2 the Russians would've crushed Germany.
Knowing the Russians it's safe to assume that they would then have promptly exterminated the Jews.

i disagree.
germany had already taken all of europe that they wanted before the usa entered the war and the only reason they were bombing england was because england declared war on them.

by june of 1944 europe was germany's and had the united states not gone in it would have remained that way.

had the germans not had to fight the allies in europe from june 44 all those resources used to fight them would have gone to fight the russians.
it would have been long and drawn out and we really don't know who would have eventually come out on top, but i think russia would have fell considering how close germany came even with the allies on their backs.

long story short, the united states was the deciding factor in the outcome and part of that outcome was the creation of israel.

thats a big reason the arabs hate the united states.

 

[meesterperfect]

Read a book for a change dude. What a load of bollocks.

be specific.

 

[luis1972]

what's the point?

 

[emceeemcee]

Here's my take on the matter. .

. .so you're doing some leisurely traveling and research in and around the West Bank . . and by golly, you've lost your passport!

Whose hands would you rather be in, the Israelis or the others?

I'm done.

Depends- if you're a cheerleader of the illegal settlement activities which kills and steals from the locals the you probably aren't going to be popular in the West Bank in which case you've only got yourself to blame.


Israel has killed quite a few foreign journalists and peace activists on purpose, not to mention kidnapped many foreign nationals and held them without trial. Most recently flotilla members were kidnapped in international waters, had their equipment and personal effects including credit cards stolen from them and many were tortured and beaten while held illegally.


Jewish peace activists are often treated better by the Palestinians than they are in Israel proper where they are arrested, deported and even shot in the face with tear gas cannisters.

 

[emceeemcee]

Read a book for a change dude. What a load of bollocks.

what is bollocks about it?



getting involved in other people's fights often comes with a price tag attached to it.

 

[meesterperfect]

Stalin's methods were worse than Hitler's. Sure he got shit done...like exterminating various groups including his rabid need to wipe out every Pole living in the Soviet Union.

:2offtopic i know, but thats another thing, the poles.
history books like to make the poles out to be innocent victims.
well all civilians are innocent victims anywhere.

after the 1st world war poland got geographically bigger and a lot of germans who had been living there continued to live there.
well many thousands of them over the years were exterminated by the poles, whole villages even.
this is fact.

but you don't hear about that too often/

the history we've been taught is one sided, the winners side.
I try to understand where both sides were coming from and i believe that to the germany, attacking poland was payback.

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

i disagree.
germany had already taken all of europe that they wanted before the usa entered the war and the only reason they were bombing england was because england declared war on them.

by june of 1944 europe was germany's and had the united states not gone in it would have remained that way.

had the germans not had to fight the allies in europe from june 44 all those resources used to fight them would have gone to fight the russians.
it would have been long and drawn out and we really don't know who would have eventually come out on top, but i think russia would have fell considering how close germany came even with the allies on their backs.

long story short, the united states was the deciding factor in the outcome and part of that outcome was the creation of israel.

thats a big reason the arabs hate the united states.

Ask any WWII historian and they will tell you that, in the long run, Germany had no chance of defeating the Soviet Union and that it was the USSR that played the biggest role in defeating the Nazis. The USSR simply had too much resources at its disposal. If America didn't enter the war, Europe would have fallen completely under Communism instead of National Socialism.

Do you really think Germany would have been able to occupy Europe without any problems? Nearly every country would have had/did have resistance groups that would have diverted men and resources from the Eastern Front. Besides, Germany was unable to invade the UK, they lost the Battle of Britain and Operation Sealion would have been a failure. Even if the Allies were only the USSR, the UK, Canada and the Free French, there is no way Germany would have won WWII. America played a major part in ending the war as quickly as it did, but Germany's fate was sealed by winter 1941.

 

[meesterperfect]

Ask any WWII historian and they will tell you that, in the long run, Germany had no chance of defeating the Soviet Union and that it was the USSR that played the biggest role in defeating the Nazis. The USSR simply had too much resources at its disposal. If America didn't enter the war, Europe would have fallen completely under Communism instead of National Socialism.

Do you really think Germany would have been able to occupy Europe without any problems? Nearly every country would have had/did have resistance groups that would have diverted men and resources from the Eastern Front. Besides, Germany was unable to invade the UK, they lost the Battle of Britain and Operation Sealion would have been a failure. Even if the Allies were only the USSR, the UK, Canada and the Free French, there is no way Germany would have won WWII. America played a major part in ending the war as quickly as it did, but Germany's fate was sealed by winter 1941.

so your saying that germany would have eventually lost it all, even europe, with or without the united states?

its very possible, many years later.
but keep in mind that germany had control of most of europe as of june 1944.

but what your also saying i believe is that after russia had defeated germany they then would have taken for themselves what the germans had already taken.
And had it not been for the united states being there they would have.
possible, but i doubt it.
germany yes, west of germany probably not.
they , the russians were pretty battered by then too.

but we could go all week about these very possible what ifs.

my point was the creation of israel due to both world wars was the spark that set the fire of the arabs hating the united states.
they haven't forgotten that and the many other things that the united states has done in their region since.
understanding the enemy, first step towards peace.

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

my point was the creation of israel was the spark that set the fire of the arabs hating the united states.
they haven't forgotten that and the many other things that the united states has done in their region since.
understanding the enemy, first step towards peace.

No, I get what you are saying and I agree. The West's involvement in creating Israel started the hate of the West (though I think it was really the US's constant veto of actions against Israel that really fanned the flames). I don't really know how we got to talking about WWII, I guess Godwin's law struck again.

 

[meesterperfect]

haha, well you know your stuff fer sure Plas.
interesting topic.
:hatsoff:

 

[Trident1]

No, I get what you are saying and I agree. The West's involvement in creating Israel started the hate of the West (though I think it was really the US's constant veto of actions against Israel that really fanned the flames). .

So the British involvement in Egypt and the Middle East in the 1920s had nothing to do with any Arab resentment. Or Soviet involvement in Arab affairs during the 1960s?

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

So the British involvement in Egypt and the Middle East in the 1920s had nothing to do with any Arab resentment. Or Soviet involvement in Arab affairs during the 1960s?

Of course they did. Just because I didn't mention them doesn't mean they didn't. I'm just generalizing.

 

[meesterperfect]

Eisenhowers removal of Mohammad Mosaddegh in place of The Shaw didnt help much either.
a lot of blowback on that one.
I kind of feel like a traitor giving reasons arabs hate us but .......its true.

 

[BioDefenseGrad]

Eisenhowers removal of Mohammad Mosaddegh in place of The Shaw didnt help much either.
a lot of blowback on that one.
I kind of feel like a traitor giving reasons arabs hate us but .......its true.

Very few Iranians are Arab, but I get what you're saying. Honestly the Arabs have not been that hard done by the U.S. They also have no problem meddling in the affairs of non-Arab countries too.


But as for Operation Ajax, I wonder how far apologizing (with qualifier) to Iran for deposing Mosaddegh would get us in our relations with that country?