For Obama, stinging gun bill defeat is personal and political

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New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
I can't say I'm particularly heart-broken by the defeat of this legislation. Here's one the right-wingers can chalk up as some revenge for Obamacare.



http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/...t-personal-political-234849868--politics.html

What happens to a president who romps to reelection, channels a national tragedy that sparked coast-to-coast outrage into a deeply personal crusade, then fails to get a measure backed by nine out of ten Americans through the Senate, where his party holds a majority? Thanks to the NRA-fueled defeat of a bill that might have mildly tightened limits on gun sales, President Barack Obama is learning the hard way.

For the families of those killed or wounded by gun violence and who watched with judging eyes as the Senate killed the measure by a vote of 54-46 (it needed a supermajority of 60 votes to pass) what to make of the vote was an easy call.

“Shame on you!” Patricia Maisch shouted from the visitors gallery above the Senate floor.

Maisch, a grandmotherly figure who disarmed the shooter in the Tucson carnage that nearly claimed the life of former congresswoman Gabby Giffords, was happy to elaborate as reporters swarmed her after the vote. “I decided I could not sit still,” she said. “They have no souls, they have no compassion.”

But on Wednesday, they had the votes.

That’s Message One for Obama from this stinging legislative defeat: Having emotion and the majority on your side isn’t enough. NRA leader Wayne LaPierre, after all, didn't even need to show up.

The knock on Obama has often been that he’s Mr. Spock, viewing his approach as the most logical and assuming that logic will trump the other’s side’s arguments and emotions. But only the most cynical observers will argue that the president didn’t take this fight personally – with frequent flashes of very public anger and anguish ever since the slaughter of 20 schoolchildren at Sandy Hook Elementary. And supporters of the legislation deployed the families of the slain as lobbyists in the weeks leading up to the vote.

Moreover, as the White House never tired of pointing out, polls show roughly 90 percent of Americans support expanded background checks.

"I will put everything I've got into this, and so will Joe," Obama promised in January, with Vice President Biden at his side. "But I tell you, the only way we can change is if the American people demand it."

In the end, though, four red-state Democrats joined 41 of the Senate's 45 Republicans to defeat the bill. Why stick their necks out for legislation whose death in the Republican-led House of Representatives was essentially foreordained?

"It came down to politics -- the worry that that vocal minority of gun owners would come after them in future elections. They worried that the gun lobby would spend a lot of money and paint them as anti-Second Amendment," Obama said in a passionate assessment in the White House Rose Garden after the vote. "And obviously, a lot of Republicans had that fear, but Democrats had that fear, too. And so they caved to the pressure, and they started looking for an excuse -- any excuse -- to vote 'no.'"

That would seem to bode ill for Obama in the early months of a second term. A reelected president at perhaps the height of his persuasive powers couldn't even get his own party in line behind this widely popular measure.

Obama's 2012 campaign juggernaut, overhauled and renamed Organizing for Action -- an unprecedented grassroots effort devoted entirely to advancing his agenda -- didn't tip the balance. There will be hard votes in the future on immigration, on taxes and spending, maybe on energy and climate change. He's doomed!

Message Two: No, he's not.

Republican Senator John Cornyn of Texas, a staunch conservative and fierce Obama critic, told Yahoo News that Wednesday's vote was a fight over the Second Amendment. "I wouldn't think it has any broader implication" for Obama's agenda, he said.

So no spillover effect on immigration? "I don't think so," Cornyn said.

Sure, former President George W. Bush's second term never really recovered from his failed push to partly privatize Social Security. But that effort was powerfully unpopular, including among Republicans, while the goal of tamping down gun violence is broadly popular.

Which brings up Message Three: Obama's push on gun safety has suffered a terrible setback, but it's far from over.

Surrounded in the Rose Garden by parents of slain Sandy Hook schoolchildren, Obama never said the words "2014 mid-term elections." He didn't need to.

"We can do more if Congress gets its act together. And if this Congress refuses to listen to the American people and pass common-sense gun legislation, then the real impact is going to have to come from the voters," he declared. "You need to let your representatives in Congress know that you are disappointed, and that if they don’t act this time, you will remember come election time."

Maybe, but Message Four is that this White House needs to get better organized.

Democrats from states with large gun-owning populations complained privately that the Obama operation never seemed to know how to talk to gun owners. Several told Yahoo News that Obama hasn't really moved past his 2008 depiction of small-town Americans who "cling to guns or religon." Gun rights-favoring media, too, complained about the message.

There was a weird, telling little moment in the debate that highlighted the White House's struggle.

In early April, top Obama pollster Joel Benenson wrote a New York Times op-ed describing a poll his firm conducted that found, as he described it, that Americans don't really know what the country's gun laws actually say. Benenson was trying to beat back the core NRA argument against new gun laws: That authorities must enforce existing gun laws. But his column sent another message: That Team Obama had not really scrutinized the NRA argument until April.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
The Dems/left should have put 99.9% of the focus on crime, criminals and the mentally ill. By making the argument all about certain types of firearms, I think they lost the battle before the vote was even taken. What Obama and many on the left don't understand is that the overwhelming majority of people who buy ARs and AKs have never committed a violent crime and never will commit a violent crime. And they (we) deeply resent a President, or anyone else, linking us or our firearms to criminal activity... especially if the criminal element never gets mentioned - only the firearm. Let me ask, which is more dangerous? A generally law abiding citizen with an AK variant with a 100 round drum magazine or a gang member with a six shot .38 revolver??? Well, which is more dangerous? :dunno:

What happened in Newtown and Colorado were horrible tragedies. But they were statistical anomalies. The fact remains, so called "assault weapons" (legally owned) are not involved in very many crimes in the United States. Neither are legally owned automatic weapons. So Obama and the gun grabber crowd making such a HUGE fuss about these weapons was exactly like attacking the problem of high speed drunk driving by proposing a ban on high performance cars (Corvettes, Ferraris, Porsches, etc.) simply because one or two of them was involved in a high speed, drunk driving accident where some school kids were killed. Do you need a 160 mph car to get to work??? Do you need a car that can pull 1 g in a turn to get groceries??? What we need to do is make America's streets safe again. And the way to do that is by banning these powerful, high performance, racing style cars from our roads! Stand with me, America! :rolleyes: IMO, handguns are more of a problem. And more specifically, handguns in the possession of convicted, violent criminals are more of a major problem.

Obama doesn't understand the rural gun culture anymore than Rush Limbaugh understands hip-hop culture. And by putting a goof like Joe Biden in charge of this effort, Obama wrote FAIL across this proposal right up front. What was Tailgunner Joe's advice a month or two ago? He said that ya don't need one of those "powerful assault weapons". Why, his wife could scare away an attacker by just taking a double barreled shotgun out on the back deck and firing off a round or two? Really?! :facepalm: Jill's not a bad looking older woman. And I'm not sure how well she'd survive in jail... cause that is some highly illegal advice. In my part of the woods, brandishing a firearm and discharging a firearm in public are pretty damn illegal.

He could have probably gotten the gun show background check through if Biden, Di Feinstein, Babs Boxer and Chuckie Schumer had kept their mouths shut. With some tweaks, that was a fairly acceptable proposal, IMO. But as soon as he let the know-nothing, hyperbolic gun grabbers run wild, I wrote a check to the NRA-ILA. And I haven't written a check to the NRA in years. I feel like I'm a fairly reasonable guy on the gun issue (relatively speaking ;)). But Obama managed to radicalize even me by screwing the pooch on this one. He should have proposed a law which declared members of the Hells Angels, Aryan Brotherhood, Crips, Bloods, Mexican Mafia, Asian street gangs, Israeli/Russian mafia and the Latin American/Mexican drug cartels domestic terrorists. Propose that a special force of Federal agents be assembled to hunt them down like animals. Take their guns. Take their illicit profits. Put their bankers in jail (which Eric Holder said he wouldn't do!!! :wtf:). Hell, get cute and call them The Untouchables. Find some descendant of Elliot Ness and put him in charge. But whatever you do, unless you make it about the people who actually are a problem in our society, we're not with you, Mr. President. And if you vilify us, don't be surprised if we refuse to support any gun control effort that you propose... cause we will no longer trust you!
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
A great defeat. :clap:
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
I know, right. Easy access to firearms will make your dreams of mass murder and crime in Maryland much easier to realize.

There has always been easy access to weapons. His unconstitutional bill will not fix it.

Baseball bats and knives kill more people a year than guns.
 
The gun vote failed because of the way the Senate is designed. It failed because the Senate wildly overrepresents small, rural states and, on top of that, requires a 60-vote supermajority to pass most pieces of legislation.The Manchin-Toomey bill received 54 aye votes and 46 nay votes. That is to say, a solid majority of senators voted for it. In most legislative bodies around the world, that would have been enough. But it wasn’t a sufficient supermajority for the U.S. Senate. What a fucking joke
 
I'm not sure...I think this whole thing was a calculated thing. There is no way Obama could have thought it was passing, so he may have just wanted to draw the lines clearly.
...or I could just be wrong.
 

Mr. Daystar

In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
The Dems/left should have put 99.9% of the focus on crime, criminals and the mentally ill. By making the argument all about certain types of firearms, I think they lost the battle before the vote was even taken. What Obama and many on the left don't understand is that the overwhelming majority of people who buy ARs and AKs have never committed a violent crime and never will commit a violent crime. And they (we) deeply resent a President, or anyone else, linking us or our firearms to criminal activity... especially if the criminal element never gets mentioned - only the firearm. Let me ask, which is more dangerous? A generally law abiding citizen with an AK variant with a 100 round drum magazine or a gang member with a six shot .38 revolver??? Well, which is more dangerous? :dunno:

What happened in Newtown and Colorado were horrible tragedies. But they were statistical anomalies. The fact remains, so called "assault weapons" (legally owned) are not involved in very many crimes in the United States. Neither are legally owned automatic weapons. So Obama and the gun grabber crowd making such a HUGE fuss about these weapons was exactly like attacking the problem of high speed drunk driving by proposing a ban on high performance cars (Corvettes, Ferraris, Porsches, etc.) simply because one or two of them was involved in a high speed, drunk driving accident where some school kids were killed. Do you need a 160 mph car to get to work??? Do you need a car that can pull 1 g in a turn to get groceries??? What we need to do is make America's streets safe again. And the way to do that is by banning these powerful, high performance, racing style cars from our roads! Stand with me, America! :rolleyes: IMO, handguns are more of a problem. And more specifically, handguns in the possession of convicted, violent criminals are more of a major problem.

Obama doesn't understand the rural gun culture anymore than Rush Limbaugh understands hip-hop culture. And by putting a goof like Joe Biden in charge of this effort, Obama wrote FAIL across this proposal right up front. What was Tailgunner Joe's advice a month or two ago? He said that ya don't need one of those "powerful assault weapons". Why, his wife could scare away an attacker by just taking a double barreled shotgun out on the back deck and firing off a round or two? Really?! :facepalm: Jill's not a bad looking older woman. And I'm not sure how well she'd survive in jail... cause that is some highly illegal advice. In my part of the woods, brandishing a firearm and discharging a firearm in public are pretty damn illegal.

He could have probably gotten the gun show background check through if Biden, Di Feinstein, Babs Boxer and Chuckie Schumer had kept their mouths shut. With some tweaks, that was a fairly acceptable proposal, IMO. But as soon as he let the know-nothing, hyperbolic gun grabbers run wild, I wrote a check to the NRA-ILA. And I haven't written a check to the NRA in years. I feel like I'm a fairly reasonable guy on the gun issue (relatively speaking ;)). But Obama managed to radicalize even me by screwing the pooch on this one. He should have proposed a law which declared members of the Hells Angels, Aryan Brotherhood, Crips, Bloods, Mexican Mafia, Asian street gangs, Israeli/Russian mafia and the Latin American/Mexican drug cartels domestic terrorists. Propose that a special force of Federal agents be assembled to hunt them down like animals. Take their guns. Take their illicit profits. Put their bankers in jail (which Eric Holder said he wouldn't do!!! :wtf:). Hell, get cute and call them The Untouchables. Find some descendant of Elliot Ness and put him in charge. But whatever you do, unless you make it about the people who actually are a problem in our society, we're not with you, Mr. President. And if you vilify us, don't be surprised if we refuse to support any gun control effort that you propose... cause we will no longer trust you!

I can't rep you, but I can tell you that this is one of the best posts regarding this entire situation, I have read. Very well though out, and very articulately stated. Good job.
 

Mayhem

Banned
The Dems/left should have put 99.9% of the focus on crime, criminals and the mentally ill. By making the argument all about certain types of firearms, I think they lost the battle before the vote was even taken. What Obama and many on the left don't understand is that the overwhelming majority of people who buy ARs and AKs have never committed a violent crime and never will commit a violent crime. And they (we) deeply resent a President, or anyone else, linking us or our firearms to criminal activity... especially if the criminal element never gets mentioned - only the firearm. Let me ask, which is more dangerous? A generally law abiding citizen with an AK variant with a 100 round drum magazine or a gang member with a six shot .38 revolver??? Well, which is more dangerous? :dunno:

What happened in Newtown and Colorado were horrible tragedies. But they were statistical anomalies. The fact remains, so called "assault weapons" (legally owned) are not involved in very many crimes in the United States. Neither are legally owned automatic weapons. So Obama and the gun grabber crowd making such a HUGE fuss about these weapons was exactly like attacking the problem of high speed drunk driving by proposing a ban on high performance cars (Corvettes, Ferraris, Porsches, etc.) simply because one or two of them was involved in a high speed, drunk driving accident where some school kids were killed. Do you need a 160 mph car to get to work??? Do you need a car that can pull 1 g in a turn to get groceries??? What we need to do is make America's streets safe again. And the way to do that is by banning these powerful, high performance, racing style cars from our roads! Stand with me, America! :rolleyes: IMO, handguns are more of a problem. And more specifically, handguns in the possession of convicted, violent criminals are more of a major problem.

Obama doesn't understand the rural gun culture anymore than Rush Limbaugh understands hip-hop culture. And by putting a goof like Joe Biden in charge of this effort, Obama wrote FAIL across this proposal right up front. What was Tailgunner Joe's advice a month or two ago? He said that ya don't need one of those "powerful assault weapons". Why, his wife could scare away an attacker by just taking a double barreled shotgun out on the back deck and firing off a round or two? Really?! :facepalm: Jill's not a bad looking older woman. And I'm not sure how well she'd survive in jail... cause that is some highly illegal advice. In my part of the woods, brandishing a firearm and discharging a firearm in public are pretty damn illegal.

He could have probably gotten the gun show background check through if Biden, Di Feinstein, Babs Boxer and Chuckie Schumer had kept their mouths shut. With some tweaks, that was a fairly acceptable proposal, IMO. But as soon as he let the know-nothing, hyperbolic gun grabbers run wild, I wrote a check to the NRA-ILA. And I haven't written a check to the NRA in years. I feel like I'm a fairly reasonable guy on the gun issue (relatively speaking ;)). But Obama managed to radicalize even me by screwing the pooch on this one. He should have proposed a law which declared members of the Hells Angels, Aryan Brotherhood, Crips, Bloods, Mexican Mafia, Asian street gangs, Israeli/Russian mafia and the Latin American/Mexican drug cartels domestic terrorists. Propose that a special force of Federal agents be assembled to hunt them down like animals. Take their guns. Take their illicit profits. Put their bankers in jail (which Eric Holder said he wouldn't do!!! :wtf:). Hell, get cute and call them The Untouchables. Find some descendant of Elliot Ness and put him in charge. But whatever you do, unless you make it about the people who actually are a problem in our society, we're not with you, Mr. President. And if you vilify us, don't be surprised if we refuse to support any gun control effort that you propose... cause we will no longer trust you!

I can't rep you, but I can tell you that this is one of the best posts regarding this entire situation, I have read. Very well though out, and very articulately stated. Good job.

I repped him for this.

And yes, Rey sums it up nicely. The Left just doesn't get that gun types and magazine capacity galvanizes their opposition. For the last few months I've been saying so on HuffPost and I keep getting shouted/laughed out of the room. Well, who's laughing now?

And I keep reflecting on the interview bloviating buffoon Michael Moore gave when he proclaimed, "The NRA is doomed." Yeah Mike, it sure is.
 
Eh. He's had a bill not pass. One that will likely come up again as it's not an issue confined to his presidency. Hardly makes him Herb Hoover.
 
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