Don't support the troops.

[Member2019]

Don't use "all" people -- look at state policies instead ...

No I'm a very OPEN-minded hatemongerer.
And I bet you other half are the ones burning the American flag in the streets of Tehran, but in reality long to be living over here.

No, laugh at the fact that Americans have the right to burn their own flag but Iranians do not have the same for theirs.

You speak of peace!!??
But your people hijack planes, blow up hotels, subways etc.

Hold on!
Don't broadly label people as such -- it's stereotyping.

Instead, be specific on the actions of Arab nations.
You can quickly and easily show how Arab states have no regard for bodies like the UN, and will fight with each other over pieces of desert (even before oil became a commodity)!

You don't need to personalize it against Arabs themselves, but the follies of their own governments.
Iran is so easy right now!
They are stirring up all this rhetoric, not realizing what's they are forcing the US into!

How are these acts of violence peaceful?
Oh yeah, God tells you all to do it so it's justified.

Dude, you just blew it!
Don't say things like, "God tells you all to do it."
You're painting that broad stroke.

Try something more tactful, like ...
"At least our government isn't a theocracy that tells its citizens to hate others."
It's very easy to do -- recognize the state-based hate and point it out as the root cause!

And I have no right to say things about you and the other guy?
What gives you the right to bash our forces?

I wouldn't put it that way ...
Again, people need to realize that American soldiers take an oath, and it is a 100% volunteer-based oath!

Leave your families country alone....if you love it so much go back there!!

Okay, gotta agree 100% there!
It's one thing to disagree with the policies of America.
But do not blame the American soldier for those policies!

If the US military questioned and defied their elected, civilian leaders, then the US would be a military dictatorship today!
It's one thing for former commanders to question and criticize -- but not active commanders.

But you probably won't because you have it too good here.
It's pretty obvious to me that we will never agree on anything.
My hatred burns way too deep to let go......

You've gotta learn to be more open my friend.
You're just as bad as the alleged people you dispise when you start labeling "all".

 

[Baal]

:2offtopic Man...I love how supporting vs. not supporting the troops (which has to do IMHO with stuff like armour and fair rotation - I'm not in the service but I know a lot of people who are) somehow generated a discussion on the foreign policy proscriptions, the arab-israeli conflict, fundamentalist islam, terrorism, ideological hate speech and finally my favorite...the You vs. Me personification of these issues with regards to other members and vice-versa.


JESUS H. - Just be thankful for what you've got....

One last thing...and this is important...

ARMCHAIR WARRIORS TAKE NOTE: WHILE YOUR EPIC CYBERBATTLE ENSUES, YOUR TAQUITO's ARE GETTING COLD AND YOUR MISSIN BUFFY!!!

ROFLMAO!!!

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

 

[bookas]

Who really gives a flying fuck? Oh wow, gj Trigger, and to all those who write paragraphs how the British or Americans are evil. Anyone who has served their country in uniform doesn't let this kind of talk get to them. I have never been spit on, though some of my friends have.

That's actually sort of a thank you, which validates our service that guarantees that right. Since you've expressed your opinion, Trigger, allow me to express mine: FUCK YOU YA GODDAMN CUNT!

 

[member2686]

A bit off-topic, but...

I've been spat upon by "conservatives" because I've litigated 1st Amendment cases in Federal Court in ass-backwards cities (Cincinnati) and WON.

Fuck you, Cincinnati. You don't want gay people in your city? Fuck off. You don't want Larry Flynt in Cincinnati? Bite me. You don't think adult entertainment businesses should be allowed downtown? Go fuck yourself.

We won every single one of those cases, and I'm proud to say that. My brother, the national General Counsel of the ACLU, and Louis Sirkin...well...they simply kick ASS!!!

I'll proudly take the spit of an ignorant man and return it with the option of exercising the full extent of my civil rights and free speech!!!

People can be such ignorant creatures sometimes. I'm one of them, as are we all, and I've got my share of weaknesses and faults, but wow, when it comes to free speech and porn and religion, things get HORRIBLY messy and oftentimes ugly!!!! :eek:

Cheers. Speak up! :2 cents: :hatsoff:

 

[ThomasJenkins]

In America, we have the right to say anything we feel about soldiers, war, mercenaries, etc... that is the right of freedom of speech. I didn't tell you what you are, but I told you what I think soldiers are, in general. I know many soldiers like you: compassionate, proud men, who believe what they are doing is right. That does not change what I think of soldiers as a whole, and that, I am afraid, does not make it right to carry weapons into other people's countries, whatever the intentions. Until there is a world army with peacekeeping missions only, I will continue to detest the armed forces, what they stand for, those that deploy them, and... I am sorry... but the soldiers themselves. Individually, like yourself... soldiers can be very good, decent people. But in my heart, to become a soldier is to become a killer, to become one that is trained to murder in the name of the state whenever the state deems necessary... for me it is not protecting the country, but violating the countries of others.

I am sorry, my friend. But I have the right to tell you that. There are countries in which I would not have that right. But you served a country where the people have the right to tell you that they do not like what you are, and you should be proud of that, as you are proud of what you have done for your country.

Fox

Have you ever once thought about the number of American soldiers who gave their lives during the past 250 years just so you could have the freedom to say anything you feel about soldiers, war, mercenaries, etc????? Have you ever once thought about the number of mothers, fathers, wives, husbands, siblings and children who had their lives torn upside down by the loss of their loved ones to give you the freedom to say anything you feel about soldiers, war, mercenaries etc????? Do you know how many men and women feel an inherent obligation to serve in the military because they believe they owe it to memory of their forefathers who gave their lives serving in the military before them???? Do you even know what American soldier once said "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to death your right to say it"?????

Before criticizing any American for joining the military knowing that they may be called upon to use deadly force against another human being, remember there are other humans from other countries who proudly call themselves patriots for joining their respective country's military and take up arms against other humans to serve what they believe is the best interest of their society.

The world as it exists today was created through war. Each individual country was developed over thousands of years through war. From Eric the Red, Julius Caesar, Napolean, William Wallace, Alexander, Atilla, Genghis Khan, Hidalgo, Ramses, Henry VIII, Adolf Hitler, Pol-Pot, Saddam Hussein and many others who chose to expand their nation by forcibly seizing the lands of their neighbors... this world was carved through war. There isn't one country, one nationality, nor one single race who can boast a history without bloodshed. To say that any human, of any nation, is inhumane simply because they chose to serve in the military is to say that all mankind as we know it is inhumane.

I do not support war. I hate it. I voice my opinion against it and pray to God that one day war will cease to exist in this world. But I will never, ever criticize any human being who is willing to serve and sacrifice their life so that I will not have to sacrifice mine. Nor will I ever respect the words of any human being who so blantantly and callously criticizes another for having the courage to risk such sacrifice.

 

[member2686]

Some people believe history began when they were born and that they owe nothing to anyone and can toss around "Utopianisms" without due, global, political, economic, and high consideration because "that's the way it should be" in their minds. Some people, calling themselves "we," who are NOT citizens of this country (here, the USA), are particularly outspoken without any right to be so...

I'd rather not further discuss this because I'll end up laying into someone so hard as to either hurt their feelings or get myself banned. But trust me...I'm chomping at the fucking bit!

*zips his lips*

:hatsoff:

 

[calpoon]

Do you know how many men and women feel an inherent obligation to serve in the military because they believe they owe it to memory of their forefathersQUOTE]

you mean white men, right? cuz the rest of us americans, there fore fathers and mothers didn't fight for shit, unless it was to keep from being murdered for refusing to be a peice of property. I'd like to hear you respond to the fact that this year (and last year, and next year) more women and children are going to be killed in this country by americans then by every terrorist act put togther.

you know what, im sorry that I had to go there, but I do. what part of being murdered beaten and raped every day is part of our freedom? when is the military going to get togther and decide that they want to deal with that? maybe when we use them to actaully bring about some of that supposed freedom IN THIS COUNTRY will I even begin to think about trying to bring it about somewhere else.

 

[ThomasJenkins]

I am not sure of all the races you are referring to beyond "white men"... but remember that African Americans served way back in the Revolutionary and Civil Wars too.

 

[Peter Gazinya]

You guys are all so nice to people with different opinions than your own. I can see why American troops find it so easy to make friends in the Middle East.

Fox

**edit** That's pretty limited thinking the way you project the innane ramblings of some porn board discussion poster onto members of the American military. I expect, and usually see, better from you.

There are plenty of guys over there in complete hell that don't want to be anywhere near it. Plenty of them are good guys who have no interest in harassing people or killing innocent children. They're fucking stuck there with no way out because they choose to do the right thing and honor a commitment they made to follow whatever orders were given to them. Not everyone can be a doctor, rocket scientist, or worldly scholar.

 

[lordvader1]

Professor I see that you and I agree to disagree on certain issues. In my mind it's too many others that don't see things my way, which is why I've made some enemies in these forums. You may or may not agree with this next statement and will probably voice your opinion about it but here goes.....
The Arab world has brought this form of hatred I have on themselves. I believe that they have labeled themselves as the enemy of the free world. They DO hijack planes, take hostages, blow up hotels with tourists. It's a fact, just turn on CNN. Not all of them but a few. In my mind and in a lot of others you look at an Arab person and think, what if? What if he is connected to Al Qaida and wants to kill me for the sole fact I am a Westerner? Before 9/11 and more since this feeling of awkwardness has to be on everyone's mind. You're a liar if you say you've been on an airplane and don't get an uneasy feeling in your stomach when an Arab gets aboard. You'd be a fool not to think about it. It pays to be a little more cautious. 60 years ago we here had the same feeling about Asians, see Pearl Harbor. We rounded them up wheter they were Japanese or not and locked them away in makeshift villages to investigate them. 60 years ago they were lower then dog shit and the vast majority despised them. A lot has changed since then and it's for the better in my eyes. Who know in 60 years maybe my feelings and many others will change toward Arabs but for now it's a risk I'm not willing to take. There's a kid I work with from Iran, real nice kid. Works hard, never late but I don't think I'll really ever be able to trust him in the way he deserves. Does that make me closed-minded? To me no, to others yes. I guess I put my feelings out to the world in a more direct manner then what you're used to.

Do you know how many men and women feel an inherent obligation to serve in the military because they believe they owe it to memory of their forefathersQUOTE]


you know what, im sorry that I had to go there, but I do. what part of being murdered beaten and raped every day is part of our freedom? when is the military going to get togther and decide that they want to deal with that? maybe when we use them to actaully bring about some of that supposed freedom IN THIS COUNTRY will I even begin to think about trying to bring it about somewhere else.

I blame the judicial system on this. If the law was more severe to really scare the shit out of these types of people none of this stuff would ever happen. I feel if you rape someone your dick should be chopped off. Steal something, lose a hand. Now this is way too barbaric for this country in this day and age but holy cow would crime be down.

 

[Aegis]

The Arab world has brought this form of hatred I have on themselves. I believe that they have labeled themselves as the enemy of the free world. They DO hijack planes, take hostages, blow up hotels with tourists. It's a fact, just turn on CNN. Not all of them but a few.

You contradict yourself. You say that the arab world has brought the hatred onto themselves and that they have labeled themselves as the enemy of the free world. Then you go on to say that it's only a few of them who do these kinds of despicable acts.

Has the arab world brought it unto themselves, or have the acts of a few brought it unto the arab world?

 

[lordvader1]

You contradict yourself. You say that the arab world has brought the hatred onto themselves and that they have labeled themselves as the enemy of the free world. Then you go on to say that it's only a few of them who do these kinds of despicable acts.

Has the arab world brought it unto themselves, or have the acts of a few brought it unto the arab world?

Same thing, no contradiction.

 

[Aegis]

Same thing, no contradiction.

How can it possibly be the same thing? You said yourself that it was only a few who did these things. How can some terrrorists be the arab world?

 

[qweretyuiopas@]

Hmm...
This thread is still open
*Walks off*

 

[lordvader1]

I give up..... I walk away from this thread defeated:wave2: Cya elsewhere and hopefully on better terms.

 

[Member2019]

You contradict yourself. You say that the arab world has brought the hatred onto themselves and that they have labeled themselves as the enemy of the free world. Then you go on to say that it's only a few of them who do these kinds of despicable acts.

Has the arab world brought it unto themselves, or have the acts of a few brought it unto the arab world?

Here's the deal -- it's state sponsored in many cases.
In fact, I'm still surprised -- despite all the state-sponsored hatred -- that many Arabs come away open minded.

I think too many of you forget that the US is very much a free country, far more than you realize!

A bit off-topic, but...
I've been spat upon by "conservatives" because I've litigated 1st Amendment cases in Federal Court in ass-backwards cities (Cincinnati) and WON.

And I've had it with alleged "conservatives" and "liberals" who don't realize the 1st and 2nd Amendments are very, very much related!
Don't believe me? Don't see the logic? Don't take my word for it, read up on US history!
The arguments in the late 1700s / early 1800s were no different than today!

 

[Aegis]

Here's the deal -- it's state sponsored in many cases.
In fact, I'm still surprised -- despite all the state-sponsored hatred -- that many Arabs come away open minded.

I think too many of you forget that the US is very much a free country, far more than you realize!

I do not disagree that it's state-sponsored in some cases, I just think that it's too much of a stretch to say that the entire arab world brought the hatred unto themselves. Not that I in any way approve of how some arab countries are run or some parts of arab/muslim culture around the world. I just don't think that it's possible to justify hatred against all muslims or arabs by the actions of some terrorists, religious fanatics or state leaders.

 

[That One Guy]

i dont personally agree with the fact were over there, but the fact that people are standing up for what they believe in is what i support them for, so u can support the peoples reasons, without the troops themselves if u will.

 

[SeraphiM]

And on that note this thread is closed.

Peter Gazinya 3 day ban for unprovoked flamming.

We took a Chance and it evolved into this :dunno: