Do you get chills/goosebumps when it comes to the America flag?

[pool_hustler]

Interesting conversation, for sure.
My answer to the OP is that yes, at times I do.
I also agree with Jagger's comment...
I defy anyone who considers themselves an American to visit the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier at Arlington and witness the changing of the guard. If you don't feel something, you don't have a soul.

Regarding the superiority of The United States - I think we can all agree that no nation can claim superiority in the absolute because all nations are self serving and flawed to one degree or another. So instead we examine the relative ethics of various nations. And in that respect I have always felt that yes, at least among the super powers The United States has and continues to rank highest. And as an American I have always felt a certain measure of pride about that. Sadly however, the margin of that superiority took a serious hit with our unprecedented (for us) pre-emptive invasion of Iraq. In the wake of that colossal blunder we have lost significant leverage when it comes to condemning the aggression and trespasses of others.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

Name a country that is better, and before you name some country with low poverty rates and low crime statistics also make sure that they can come to their allies rescue on a moments notice and project power both militarily and economically before you answer. With all that is wrong with our system it is still the best on earth, the decline of the American way of life is not because of its founding principles it is because of tinkering through social engineering and socialist policies that slowly but surely gaining a foothold in out society. There is nothing that we can do to please you people. We have elected the most liberal president in out nation's history and still we can do nothing right.

You see, I don't really care what you or others think of our flaws because what this all boils down to is that you are envious. No other country has its mistakes scrutinized under a microscope as does the United States for all the world to see. Try that with China, Russia or the former Soviet Union and you will see deep dark secrets of oppressed people and killings at the hands of their government and they want their dirty little secrets kept hidden forever.

I am not sure of your nationality, I thought you might be from the UK. Thankfully, there are still enough people in that region of the world that understand that if America fails, the prospects for freedom and prosperity fails with it.

As for arrogance, well we are. But we are sister countries with the other democracies in the world. The pretty one.

There is no such country, that's the fucking point. Every country will be good in some stuff and bad in other stuff. This is not a competition where one nation goes above another and this is not about envy, jealousy, denial that the US didn't do great things. This is not about not being allowed to love your country. It's about people being so chauvinistic that they portray their country as the garden of Eden while loosing focus on reality. As a side effect of this, it's insulting the rest of the world. You are the one making the positive claim of being the number one in everything, being the best in everything, so it's up to you to prove it. But since we know from another thread that the wealthiest country is Qatar, with the US being at #11, we already know you're not the best in everything. QED.

Want some other ones?

Biggest export country: China (US at #2)
Export per capita: San Marino (US at #57)
Agricultural growth per capita (2007): Marshall Islands (US at #92)
Average Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) (2014): Switzerland (US at #13)
Public Debt: Zimbabwe (US at #37)
Share of total education spending for college and university: Macau (US at #26)
Teachers per 1000 for Primary Education: Saudi Arabia (US at #49)
Literacy rate: 99% (28 countries doing better)
Best air quality: Seychelles (US at #38)

Some where the US is at #1:

Weapons export 2009-2013: US #1
Municipal Waste generation (2000): US #1
Adults prosecuted: US #1
Biggest oil consumer (2013): US #1 (double the amount of #2 China)

Be proud of your country but stop shoving it down the rest of the world asses of how big and great the US is, because obviously it's not.

 

[Jack Davenport]

There is no such country, that's the fucking point. Every country will be good in some stuff and bad in other stuff. This is not a competition where one nation goes above another and this is not about envy, jealousy, denial that the US didn't do great things. This is not about not being allowed to love your country. It's about people being so chauvinistic that they portray their country as the garden of Eden while loosing focus on reality. As a side effect of this, it's insulting the rest of the world. You are the one making the positive claim of being the number one in everything, being the best in everything, so it's up to you to prove it. But since we know from another thread that the wealthiest country is Qatar, with the US being at #11, we already know you're not the best in everything. QED.

Want some other ones?

Biggest export country: China (US at #2)
Export per capita: San Marino (US at #57)
Agricultural growth per capita (2007): Marshall Islands (US at #92)
Average Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) (2014): Switzerland (US at #13)
Public Debt: Zimbabwe (US at #37)
Share of total education spending for college and university: Macau (US at #26)
Teachers per 1000 for Primary Education: Saudi Arabia (US at #49)
Literacy rate: 99% (28 countries doing better)
Best air quality: Seychelles (US at #38)

Some where the US is at #1:

Weapons export 2009-2013: US #1
Municipal Waste generation (2000): US #1
Adults prosecuted: US #1
Biggest oil consumer (2013): US #1 (double the amount of #2 China)

Be proud of your country but stop shoving it down the rest of the world asses of how big and great the US is, because obviously it's not.

First of all asshole this thread was started asking the question if we Americans feel a sense of pride in our flag, not for Belgian Twatffles that have no skin in the game to chime in.

Now that we have cleared that up, this country still has more choices, more variety and the American dream is still alive in spite of recent policy.

We still have the most technological advanced military in the world and you European types just can't wait to consume the entertainment that comes out of Hollywood. We are also the most diverse country on the planet.

So stop consuming our garbage and our technology that comes from the Silicon Valley or create your own. Until then, we will continue to remind you that you are the small fish in a big pond and will kindly keep shoving it up your ass,

 

[GodsEmbryo]

First of all asshole this thread was started asking the question if we Americans feel a sense of pride in our flag, not for Belgian Twatffles that have no skin in the game to chime in.

Now that we have cleared that up, this country still has more choices, more variety and the American dream is still alive in spite of recent policy.

We still have the most technological advanced military in the world and you European types just can't wait to consume the entertainment that comes out of Hollywood. We are also the most diverse country on the planet.

So stop consuming our garbage and our technology that comes from the Silicon Valley or create your own. Until then, we will continue to remind you that you are the small fish in a big pond and will kindly keep shoving it up your ass,

Thanks for proving me right.

American exceptionalism is a myth and the believe in it by US citizens is one of the big annoyances in the rest of the world. Nobody is denying that the US is top notch, important in the world, with fine people. But many Americans are so patriotic and very susceptible when one questions this concept of exceptionalism. You'll stand in a circle jerking to the flag shouting "We're number one! We're the best!" And you'll tell the US is the land of the home and the free, but if anyone criticizes anything it's "fuck you" and "mind your own fucked up country". If you believe your morals are good enough to be imposed on the rest of the world, then you owe that same world the responsibility to live up to those same rules at home. And if you want to set the rules for everyone else to follow, don't break those same rules.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Thanks for proving me right.

I'll do you one better! America Fuck Yeah!

Since you decided to use a thread directed at Americans as an opportunity to bash it. Every time I visit New York City I see loads of Europeans in awe of our country and way of life. Tough shit that it sticks in your craw.

 

[assari]

Be proud of your country but stop shoving it down the rest of the world asses of how big and great the US is, because obviously it's not.

For heaven's sake...

Friendly advice:

This is an important subject for Americans so try to be more diplomatic.

 

[grower_boy]

Interesting discussion so far indeed. It's funny how on almost any message board, any topic of this nature will attract angry Europeans (or Americans) ready to point out their issues with America. Personally, I consider myself a positive person. You could put any country in my face; Venezuela, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. and I could tell you things about it that interested me. Does my country have a controversial and oftentimes disturbing history? Yes of course. And certainly topics like the Native Americans, slavery, pollution, controversial wars, etc. are all worth discussing. Yet so are topics like the country's pivotal role in WWII, the world-altering inventions made here, diversity, world-class cities and more.


I get goosebumps for the American flag under certain circumstances, most of which have already been discussed in this thread. It's always a beacon of "home" for me. I think it's cool just how much variety this great nation has...think of how different Vermont is from Arizona, or Miami compared to Nashville, or New York compared with the mountains of Wyoming. I truly believe there is something here for everyone.

 

[Rattrap]

While the US has done a lot of good, it also has done a lot of bad and has been more hypocritical about it than a lot of other places. The flag no less represents all the bad the US has done than it represents the good. American exceptionalism is a myth. We have a tendency in this country that is only slowly starting to change where we espouse all the good we have done and turn a blind eye to all our massive faults and flaws. We are what we are and got ahead of other places through unique unlikely circumstances and lucky situations as much as anything else. While we aren't the worst place in the world by far it's a big stretch to think we are definitely the best, we are more free than all other places, we give more opportunity than all other places, or we treat our people better than all other places.

American exceptionalism is a myth and the believe in it by US citizens is one of the big annoyances in the rest of the world. Nobody is denying that the US is top notch, important in the world, with fine people. But many Americans are so patriotic and very susceptible when one questions this concept of exceptionalism. You'll stand in a circle jerking to the flag shouting "We're number one! We're the best!" And you'll tell the US is the land of the home and the free, but if anyone criticizes anything it's "fuck you" and "mind your own fucked up country". If you believe your morals are good enough to be imposed on the rest of the world, then you owe that same world the responsibility to live up to those same rules at home. And if you want to set the rules for everyone else to follow, don't break those same rules.

You two are spot on the money - I say this as holder of both US and EU passports. In my opinion a large part of the problem is that most Americans have no outside perspective. We're taught in school - explicitly or even in the least patriotic corners, still implicitly - that the US is by far number one. I wondered if Europeans even had hot showers until I went there as a child. And this is without, as far as I can tell with hindsight, with any intention by any of teachers/school systems/etc. It's all just sort of...ingrained. We worship the Founding Fathers and therefore their creation, even as we've twisted it into something that while on paper still functions similarly to what they envisioned, in practice far from it. We're proud of accomplishments made of generations before while resting comfortably on our laurels in the meantime. But hey, this is all my opinion. Let me give you some hard numbers.

From the US Department of State, in 2014 there were 121,512,341 passports in circulation. According to the Census, there were around 318,850,000 people. That works out to about 38.1% of Americans having a passport. Better than the less than 1/3 ratio it was before, but still - this indicates a lot of people not leaving the country. You can't get an outside perspective without going outside. One question I'm always wanting to ask when someone starts doing a similar chest-thumping act like BC here (and there's a few on this board that regularly do so): how long have you lived outside the US, military-service notwithstanding? I'd wager there's a trendline to be found there.

Interesting discussion so far indeed. It's funny how on almost any message board, any topic of this nature will attract angry Europeans (or Americans) ready to point out their issues with America. Personally, I consider myself a positive person. You could put any country in my face; Venezuela, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. and I could tell you things about it that interested me. Does my country have a controversial and oftentimes disturbing history? Yes of course. And certainly topics like the Native Americans, slavery, pollution, controversial wars, etc. are all worth discussing. Yet so are topics like the country's pivotal role in WWII, the world-altering inventions made here, diversity, world-class cities and more.

There's no doubt the US is a great country (I say 'great' by every definition except 4: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/great?s=t) - but as it's been said already, if you want to qualify best, one has to qualify best in what. That list grows shorter every year and will continue to do so as long as we're electing politicians very happy to slash what we're the best in (great example: NASA. No other US agency has benefitted and dare I say inspired the world like NASA).