Are you worried about the economy?

[titsrock]

I was going to start a thread with the title (below) but I guess I wasn't sure that this actually WOULD BE the final blow to that sickly company known as the U.S.A......

IS THIS MORGAN STANLEY ANNOUCEMENT THE SIGNAL THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS FINALLY BEEN REPLACED AS A SUPERPOWER???

Morgan Stanley, today, announced that it "accepted" a $5billion infusion of Cash from the People's Republic of China today to, allegedly, cover the firm's growing losses in the Home Mortgage market.

This follows a move by Citibank to accept Billions from an Abu Dhabi Prince (flush with oil cash) and a move by UBS.

Why is this sinister? Because the worst fear of mine has come true. China has its leg on the Necks of American Homeowners and when our new president gathers the courage to step up to the Negotiating table to talk serious with China...China merely has to bring with it a US Homeowner's mortgage paperwork and light it on fire at the negotiating table...or stamp CANCELLED or write 38% in the APR box....basically...this is the first direct mole hole into Bankrupting and Bringing the U.S. to our knees....

Anyone got any whisky...the party is officially over for the U.S. being a SuperPower. I should go throughout FREEONES and find the exact POST I made months/weeks ago predicting China could buy Morgan Stanley and begin to dismantle the U.S.....It has begun sooner than even I thought it would..

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/19/business/19cnd-morgan.html?hp

 

[titsrock]

If you want an Economic Lesson regarding the U.S. watch this clip. Does it seem possible that this is 20 years ago?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSj5tNeKRr8

 

[Bigoldowls]

Yes, I am.

 

[AFA]

Jeeze! Who would have thought? So of course the market is up

REFILE-FED FOCUS-Bleak U.S. outlook may draw bold Fed response

WASHINGTON, Jan 9 (Reuters) - A spike in U.S. unemployment, tumbling stocks and slumping factory activity may force the Federal Reserve to cut interest rates sharply to try to ward off a recession some economists say may have already arrived.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUKN0852258520080109?rpc=44

 

[dick van cock]

Do we have to worry? Unemployment is at a 15-year-low...

There is a tax surplus for the first time since ... when?

Strongest economic since the mid-90ies...

Boy, am I worried!

 

[AFA]

Do we have to worry? Unemployment is at a 15-year-low...

There is a tax surplus for the first time since ... when?

Strongest economic since the mid-90ies...

Boy, am I worried!

Just keep smiling

Almost Mission Accomplished, but most of us still have a little money left for food.

 

[titsrock]

Goldman Sachs today is forecasting U.S. slipping into a recession in 2008. They also say...:eek: Unemployment will rise to 6.5% :eek: ... that's HUGE!

The sins of the father have come back and revisited upon the son. George H.W. left the U.S. in shambles after his first term...Dubya has left the U.S. in an ever deeper and darker mess this time.

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN0956579820080109

I wonder if any of the Repub candidates will finally begin to take some shots at the president. Simply ignoring him or applauding the surge is not gonna fly anymore on the campaign trail...imo.

 

[Chrism86354]

when it comes to this country im worried about everything....were definetly not improving

 

[AFA]

Goldman Sachs today is forecasting U.S. slipping into a recession in 2008. They also say...:eek: Unemployment will rise to 6.5% :eek: ... that's HUGE!

The sins of the father have come back and revisited upon the son. George H.W. left the U.S. in shambles after his first term...Dubya has left the U.S. in an ever deeper and darker mess this time.

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN0956579820080109

I wonder if any of the Repub candidates will finally begin to take some shots at the president. Simply ignoring him or applauding the surge is not gonna fly anymore on the campaign trail...imo.

There is no way out of this mess. It's too late.

If you think this is bad, your children's children will be living in poverty, working for slave wages if there is any work for them, and some not eating at all when this compounds and get worse over the next 40 years. We talk now about working into late May to pay our taxes. Wait until your children's children have to work until late October to pay their taxes. They will probably never own a home and have to pay whatever astronomical rent so the landlord can even make ends meet as the buying power of the dollar collapses. Buy stock now in defense contractors. :thumbsup:

They just requested 3200 more troops in Afghanistan. They want 26,000. The funny thing is that the administration seems to have missed the entire point of what the Islamics don't like.

It's been brought up in several books and also news items I read that while Bush wants to talk about "they" hate freedom, (that catch word again), and they hate democracy, (the other catch word), and out way of life, Bin Laden made it very clear what he didn't like about the US involvement in the Middle East or Isreal and that has been completely ignored by Bush and cronies for their own economic and meglomanical plans, a.k.a. The New American Century.

It really doesn't take too much insight to see this, many economists do. I don't know why politicians can't. :dunno:

 

[D-rock]

Goldman Sachs today is forecasting U.S. slipping into a recession in 2008. They also say...:eek: Unemployment will rise to 6.5% :eek: ... that's HUGE!

A couple more percentage points and it might be where Michigan is realistically at now. I hate to think what will happen to us if the rest of the country gets that bad.

There is no way out of this mess. It's too late.

If you think this is bad, your children's children will be living in poverty, working for slave wages if there is any work for them, and some not eating at all when this compounds and get worse over the next 40 years. We talk now about working into late May to pay our taxes. Wait until your children's children have to work until late October to pay their taxes. They will probably never own a home and have to pay whatever astronomical rent so the landlord can even make ends meet as the buying power of the dollar collapses. Buy stock now in defense contractors. :thumbsup:

If it gets that bad I can almost see what's going to happen. Someday there will be some war or at least some tension between us and the people our country owes an enormous amount of debt to, like China and other places. We will then use that as an excuse to absolve ourselves off all the debt we owe those places. After that who knows what will happen. It probably won’t be good.

 

[Togath]

fingers can be pointed in alot of directions between clintons fucked up nafta to bushes fucked up war. something is gonna give. i remember my dad buying a house in 1979 at a21 percent interest rate. thats a fucking hi rate. it was bad back then, its getting like that again. people will learn to stop spending money and start paying off debt. my wife and i put ourselves on a strict budget for the past three years. one more year our cars, credit cards, and student loans will be paid off. sure i still have a mortgage payment but that will be it. we wont buy another thing unless its paid for with cash including cars

 

[AFA]

I said in the early 80's that China would emerge as the culture to be reckoned with, not the Soviet Union. What happens when China starts to call in that US debt, after deciding they want to own those houses in Hawaii, condo on the ski slopes in Vail, Colorado, two gas eating vehicles, Rolex watches, big screen TV's, and all the things the've been selling over here as the value of the dollar continues to plummet? Past strong advances toward becoming the world's major technological producer of chips and computer parts, will create a basis for them to really dominate technology in the future. In fact, Wall St. is predicting that global firms like Intel will benefit greatly and not be hurt at all by a US recession for that reason.

People still seem to think of China as a lower class society with workers paid in bowls of rice per day, however their appetite for all things American and desire to be a leading world economic force, will cause them to raise the prices drastically on all things made there that we've come to rely on as being made by cheap labor in the past. They will name their price, and their only manufacturing competitors will be in Singapore and Japan which enjoy a higher quality brand name recognition at the moment. Many Chinese make 20+ times more than their parents did. What will it look like in 20 years?

What is the US solution? As I said before Mitt Romney is an ass. His early campaign rhetoric was to promise a buildup of an already inflated military budget spending more on Halliburton, KBR and other defense contractors. I suppose his "vision" if he has one is to just become so big and strong and threatening of a bully, that the US will show it's readiness to kick the crap out of everyone in the world at the same time, therefore everyone will behave and act the way Washington wants. Not! While that would cost many, many American lives, as the US stature weakens, you can be sure there will be an all out isolation of the US from the rest of the world, particulaly Asia and the Mid East, proving beyond a doubt they don't need the US. In a role reversal, the US is likely to become the third world presence, unable to support itself in the face of an up and coming China supplying what raw materials it has left. I would also guess fanatical terrorist attacks would become commonplace as retribution for past political and military domination by a society out of control after WW2.

 

[titsrock]

^^^Most of that stuff, while frighteningly plausible, is probably not realistic. I see us slipping from "SuperPower" status and becoming a 2 Americas type place...America for the Upper Middle/Wealthy and America for the Poor/Lower Middle Class. This latter America will be more "populous" and most people will carry 2 careers plus a 3rd side career, just to make ends meet. The people in America 1 will be "Consultants" or "Money Managers" and they will all work from home and contribute nothing to the economy except moving money around from one account to another in order to take advantage of "rates"...

If the shit really tanks in America, consumers will stop buying stuff and suppliers will stop putting orders in to China and they will have to "make adjustments" so that they don't sit on warehouses of goods America doesn't want anymore.

I do agree with you about China having enough influence on America to be able to force us on our knees at the trade bargaining table. They could purchase banks outright, purchase Morgan Stanley outright now, maybe start a credit card here in the U.S.....basically they could fuck us 1000 ways from Sunday if they want to.

A WWIII based on debt "liquidation" is an interesting idea. I hadn't thought of that. It's definately possible....

 

[Dean Wormer]

Look at the positives in this situation. On one side you have the Repugnicans saying that things are good and will get better. On the other side there are most of the posts in this thread that say everything is horrible and we're all going to die horribly.

If nothing else history has taught us that when it comes to predicting the future no one is right about everything. If you're correct on 50% of prognostications you're doing very well.

I would say that what will happen will be somewhere in the middle of what the Repubs and the posters in this thread say.

 

[AFA]

^^^Most of that stuff, while frighteningly plausible, is probably not realistic. I see us slipping from "SuperPower" status and becoming a 2 Americas type place...America for the Upper Middle/Wealthy and America for the Poor/Lower Middle Class. This latter America will be more "populous" and most people will carry 2 careers plus a 3rd side career, just to make ends meet. The people in America 1 will be "Consultants" or "Money Managers" and they will all work from home and contribute nothing to the economy except moving money around from one account to another in order to take advantage of "rates"...

If the shit really tanks in America, consumers will stop buying stuff and suppliers will stop putting orders in to China and they will have to "make adjustments" so that they don't sit on warehouses of goods America doesn't want anymore.

I do agree with you about China having enough influence on America to be able to force us on our knees at the trade bargaining table. They could purchase banks outright, purchase Morgan Stanley outright now, maybe start a credit card here in the U.S.....basically they could fuck us 1000 ways from Sunday if they want to.

A WWIII based on debt "liquidation" is an interesting idea. I hadn't thought of that. It's definately possible....

At this point in time you have all those problems, many people have made adjustments. People work two and three jobs to make ends meet, and through the magic of advertising and shopping therapy many others have decided they just don't want to live without their new toys now. The standard of living has been declining since the end of WW2. People can't afford their own debts now, much less when the dollar's value drops and prices rise at the same time. Why expect people's cultural habits to change? What have we learned? Go shopping! The elderly decide between food and medicine daily, and national health care isn't on the governments "must do" list.

When food and gas become impossible to afford for more and more people and the US starts to find itself in a situation where they are more and more paying interest only on an unaffordable debt, there will be big trouble. They will refuse to pay.

 

[negator]

Gold Hits Record After Bernanke Speech

"NEW YORK (AP) - Gold soared to a record high Thursday after Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke pledged to cut interest rates, undermining the dollar and boosting demand for the metal as a safe investment."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8U36JQO2&show_article=1

mmmmm. . . .gold.

 

[titsrock]

Wall Street is turning its back on Ben Bernanke. His speech today drove the markets down again. We're in the middle of a 150-250 pt drop AGAIN. I made the comment earlier in this thread that 11,800 pt range might be "the bottom" of this market and we might get there in 2 weeks or so.

The question really is...will the housing and credit explode in the next month or so and begin to take the US into depression?

I wonder how "culturally" the US resembles the 1920s today? By culture I mean--fixation on materialism (mansions and cars), fixated on celebrities (the flapper parties)...proximity to War (I and II back then)....

 

[titsrock]

This article has me laughing and I thought it fit here...it's business related...

Verdict of woman spanked at work overturned
Lawyers: No discrimination because spankings given to men and women
The Associated Press
updated 9:12 a.m. PT, Thurs., Jan. 17, 2008

FRESNO, Calif. - An appeals court overturned a $1.5 million verdict awarded to a woman who was spanked in front of co-workers in what her employer called a camaraderie-building exercise.:1orglaugh

The end of the article describes some sort of strange "team building" activity which ended with the winning team humiliating the losing team in various ways which maybe make Abu Ghraib look like Sunday School??:1orglaugh

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22709141/

 

[Friday on my mind]

This article has me laughing and I thought it fit here...it's business related...

Verdict of woman spanked at work overturned
Lawyers: No discrimination because spankings given to men and women
The Associated Press
updated 9:12 a.m. PT, Thurs., Jan. 17, 2008

FRESNO, Calif. - An appeals court overturned a $1.5 million verdict awarded to a woman who was spanked in front of co-workers in what her employer called a camaraderie-building exercise.:1orglaugh

The end of the article describes some sort of strange "team building" activity which ended with the winning team humiliating the losing team in various ways which maybe make Abu Ghraib look like Sunday School??:1orglaugh

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22709141/

I worked at a company were similar types of things were done all in the name of so-called "fun".These types of things occur a lot especially at smaller companies who have not yet been hauled into a court room and learned it is way beyond the line.

 

[AFA]

Dow Ends Down 307, Economic Angst Mounts

Dow Ends Down 307, Economic Angst Mounts

Wasn't Caterpillar warning about this as well as warnings even in this thread? The only reason for the run up in stocks was that the real estate market was so over valued 18 months ago, and the money had to go somewhere. The Dow sat at 11,000 for years and nothing changed in fundamentals to push it to record highs.

Dow Ends Down 307 As Stocks Plunge on Manufacturing Slide; Bond Insurers Fall Amid Loss Fears

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080117/wall_street.html