Afghanistan

[gmase]

Where is the TSA?
https://nypost.com/2021/08/16/afghans-cling-to-us-air-force-plane-as-it-takes-off-in-kabul/

This is seriously going to be ugly. It had to be done, but there had to be a better way to do it.

Trump is not free of this mess either:
https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-removes-page-hailing-trump-taliban-deal-2021-8

(I will assume the omission of the document was accidental.)

The truth is that Trump signed a deal in February 2020 with the Taliban to get the US out of Afghanistan if the Taliban would not support terrorist groups. Trump vowed to end America’s forever wars while touting Biden’s history of pushing these wars. Biden did Trump’s dirty work for him.

 

[Orban89]

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

'Where is the TSA?
https://nypost.com/2021/08/16/afghans-cling-to-us-air-force-plane-as-it-takes-off-in-kabul/'

Yep, absolutely nothing like Vietnam.

 

[D-rock]

It had to be done, but there had to be a better way to do it.

I just don't see it. After 20 years what more could have been done? It's not like staying there a couple extra months or years or decades would have done anything. If the Afghan military was so inept after all this time, and lets face it it always has been, it's not like the Taliban would have cared about making some deal or frankly honoring some deal to have the government we put there stay in place after we were gone. We were artificially holding up a house of cards built on sand. At best this was a slight acceleration of what was always going to happen.

It's also not like you can take one of the poorest areas in the world, provide them with not much improvement in their quality of life, have them not have any modern infrastucture or education, support politicians over there who were frankly as corrupt or maybe more corrupt than the Taliban, support bad people even before that and give them weapons because it was sort of convenient for the US at the time, bomb the place over two decades, stay there long after Bin Laden was gone let alone dead, and then think some modern Western democratic republic would magically appear out of all of it.

I'm sad for any innocent Afghans that will suffer, and yes, I'm also worried for any terrorist that might pop up, but there isn't much that can be done as I don't think staying there forever is remotely the answer. Then again, maybe if the US stopped shoving it's economic and military interest in every area of the world and stopped supporting tyrants that oppress their own people for it's own gain more people in the world be much less inclined to want to kill us in the first place.

 

[gmase]

I just don't see it. After 20 years what more could have been done? It's not like staying there a couple extra months or years or decades would have done anything. If the Afghan military was so inept after all this time, and lets face it it always has been, it's not like the Taliban would have cared about making some deal or frankly honoring some deal to have the government we put there stay in place after we were gone. We were artificially holding up a house of cards built on sand. At best this was a slight acceleration of what was always going to happen.

It's also not like you can take one of the poorest areas in the world, provide them with not much improvement in their quality of life, have them not have any modern infrastucture or education, support politicians over there who were frankly as corrupt or maybe more corrupt than the Taliban, support bad people even before that and give them weapons because it was sort of convenient for the US at the time, bomb the place over two decades, stay there long after Bin Laden was gone let alone dead, and then think some modern Western democratic republic would magically appear out of all of it.

I'm sad for any innocent Afghans that will suffer, and yes, I'm also worried for any terrorist that might pop up, but there isn't much that can be done as I don't think staying there forever is remotely the answer. Then again, maybe if the US stopped shoving it's economic and military interest in every area of the world and stopped supporting tyrants that oppress their own people for it's own gain more people in the world be much less inclined to want to kill us in the first place.

I agree with you which is why I said ‘It had to be done’. We needed to leave. We should have left earlier.

The better way referred to the actual exit. I don’t really know. Maybe there wasn’t a better way.

Biden did what Bush, Obama, or Trump should have done. My prior post (#16 in the thread) says as much. Perhaps I am missing a nuance?

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

Sometimes you just gotta pack your shit and leave and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

Sometimes you just gotta pack your shit and leave and let the chips fall where they may.

Yeah, and now that whackadoodle twit, cortez is screaming that we should be bringing all of those poor refugees here immediately. I wish I could find the link to the story I saw yesterday. This fucking twat is out of her tiny little fucking mind.

 

[gmase]

This article mentions AOC’s comments (along with a few other lawmakers):
https://www.businessinsider.com/lawmakers-call-on-us-to-to-help-afghans-following-taliban-take-over

A few Republicans are also seeking to evacuate Americans and ‘loyal Afghan citizens who served alongside US forces’.

Taliban 2.0: Kinder and Gentler
https://amp.theage.com.au/world/mid...ence-since-seizing-power-20210817-p58jlk.html

 

[D-rock]

At least AOC's position is logically consistent with her past stances and philosophy. Too many other people seem to have this weird cognitive dissonance where they think at the same time:

We should get out of there
We shouldn't leave all those refugees behind
And they hate immigrants and secretly (or not so secretly) muslims.

Like really, where do you think the only logical place they can go is? Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see too many people around the world wanting to cover for our screw up on this and deal with this problem themselves.

 

[Steve-FreeOnes]

Yeah, and now that whackadoodle twit, cortez is screaming that we should be bringing all of those poor refugees here immediately. I wish I could find the link to the story I saw yesterday. This fucking twat is out of her tiny little fucking mind.

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. Unless they're from a country we stuck our nose in because it was a bit too communist for our liking.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/aoc-says-us-moral-responsibility-193800606.html

I've got a better idea, give them a shitload of AK47';s, and let THEM fight for their freedom. We shouldn't have been there this fucking long anyway. They should have had their own trained personal in place long ago. And how, or who is going to pay for it....I bet she won't donate her salary for the cause. How are we going to screen all of those people to weed out terrorists....which we never will be able to do. How long before everyone is expected to bend to their will, because if we don't, we're depriving their religious freedoms....even though it inconveniences others. Why won't one of the other islamic countries accept them?

To bad that little speech doesn't also say, but be productive, and try to assimilate. You're welcome here, but you need to pay taxes, get a job, and don't expect subways to stop selling ham and bacon, because you don't like pork.

 

[Steve-FreeOnes]

I've got a better idea, give them a shitload of AK47';s

Because giving them weapons worked out real well first time round.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

Because giving them weapons worked out real well first time round.

No, it didn't, but if they're busy shooting each other, maybe they won't over tax, our already overtaxed immigration system.

 

[gmase]

This is the new and improved Taliban.They will be respecting women’s rights and forgiving those who worked with the US. Nothing to worry about - the Taliban said so.

How will their takeover affect the opium market? They banned poppy growing in 2000 and quickly reversed course. Now, they seem satisfied to collect the tax revenue. Sounds like they are good capitalists.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-...s-illegal-drug-trade-boon-taliban-2021-08-16/

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free.

Nice slogan. Maybe we should adopt it? America has been running from it since (and prior to) the Statue of Liberty was dedicated in the mid-1880s. The Chinese Exclusion Act was passed in 1882 and repealed in 1942. America has never been accepting of newcomers.

We allowed a number of Vietnamese citizens to come over. It makes sense some Afghans be granted visas. This guy can probably buy one:
https://apnews.com/article/europe-russia-8cb3a75e8db4f4e30a011e0e826fc54d

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

"America has never been accepting of newcomers." And that started back in the 1700's when those damned Germans started coming over with their stupid language and dumb customs. Or at least that's what the English descended colonists said.

 

[Steve-FreeOnes]

No, it didn't, but if they're busy shooting each other, maybe they won't over tax, our already overtaxed immigration system.

What a delightful person you sound.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

What a delightful person you sound.

Why? Because I'm tired of working my ass off, so others can benefit, or because I'm not willing to forgive, and forget, and move on. Maybe it's because I won't extend a hand to any, and everyone that needs one. I would love to tell you about all of the times this, or any other country did that for me, but no one has yet, and I doubt they will. Sorry I'm not the picture perfect delightful little tree hugging pussy you wish I was, but I call them like I see them, and until this country gets it's head out of it's ass and fixes what's already wrong with it, I don't see it being very logical to add to the trouble we already have....I'm silly like that.

 

[gmase]

We allowed a number of Vietnamese citizens to come over. It makes sense some Afghans be granted visas. This guy can probably buy one:
https://apnews.com/article/europe-russia-8cb3a75e8db4f4e30a011e0e826fc54d

He took the money and ran to the Emirates.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/18/afghanistan-president-ghani-uae-505904

 

[gmase]

Fuck guns, how about helicopters and planes?
https://www.defenseone.com/threats/...elicopters-can-they-capture-air-force/184525/

 

[Mr. Daystar]

Yeah, I saw that. Pretty fucking special huh? If we don't send in the B-52's, or at least some C130 Specter's in to clear our shit up, were done.