should "western" governments negotiate with terrorists?

[Jagger69]

The problem is asymmetric *****.Terrorism is the tactic of the weak and the problem is that it isn't amenable to defeat by military means.America is a powerful country but all the arms it possesses can't be brought to bear on the enemy directly.Dealing with Germany and Japan was much more straightforward-anything which hurt them helped win the war.But we don't even know who the enemy is in a terrorist ******.People who have lived on good terms in a local community start planting bombs.They don't wear uniform and you can't recognise them.When you meet them they seem pleasant and reasonable people.

Well stated and I agree 100%. A hidden enemy is hard to fight....maybe impossible. :thumbsup:

fine, then we need to revamp out rules of engagement. forget being fired upon first and all that crap. see a ***, looks like a threat, take him out. cave to cave, village to village, root em out and take em out. we managed to inflict massive casualties using those tactics in Nam, with the tunnels and weapons caches we found.

This is interesting. If so, we need to be willing to do what they do....**** their women and ******** unmercifully and without warning in sneaky and clandestine attacks. It's the only thing they understand. They're betting we won't sacrifice our principles to that degree.

 

[domshooter]

fine, then we need to revamp out rules of engagement. forget being fired upon first and all that crap. see a ***, looks like a threat, take him out. cave to cave, village to village, root em out and take em out. we managed to inflict massive casualties using those tactics in Nam, with the tunnels and weapons caches we found.

 

[Facetious]

Re: should "western" governments negotiate with terrorists?


At their own peril.... :reloads & chambers: :hatsoff:


We can throw any and all things intellectual and academic at this but this is grit, guts and the will to survive, do ya cross legged coffee sippin scholarly types got those fine attributes ? ... Get Em ! :hatsoff:

poor grammar for emphasis only.

 

[Baill Inneraora]

NEVER.

Just look at Jimmy Carter during the Iran hostage crisis. 50 Americans were held hostage in Iran, and Jimmy Carter did nothing but wring his hands and try to negotiate with those losers. He did have an attempt at a rescue that was a complete failure. Jimmy Carter was a weak panty waist who had no idea how to deal with those rag headed, foul smelling losers.

As a result, the 50 Americans remained captive for the last 444 days of the Carter Administration.

Fortunately, America then elected a man who really knew how to deal with the lovely muslim "holy" men. Ronald Reagan made it very clear that when he came to power that the sheet heads responsible would be dealt with swiftly and harshly.

What happened? The hostages were on an airplane home within 45 minutes after President Reagan was inagurated.

Of course, the press tried to spin the whole thing with headlines like "Jimmy Carter's heroic effort in his last minutes as president..." What a joke!!

Reagan also showed Mohmar Qadafi that he wouldn't put up with his garbage either. He bombed Qadafi's compound, and nobody in the US heard much from him at all until not just after Reagan was out of power, but until Reagan ****** away.

That's how you deal with terrorists.

444 days or 45 minutes? It seems pretty clear to me which policy works best when dealing with muslim extremists. Just ask yourself: WWRD = What Would Ronnie Do?

I guess you are forgetting that the Reagan campaign was negotiating with the Islamic Republic of Iran to make sure the hostages were not released before the election in '80.

I guess you forget that the Reagan administration was sending weapons to Iran in exchange for getting American hostages release in Beirut. (which of course encouraged for kidnappings)

 

[JayJohn85]

Well the old argument of "if we negotiate they will never stop as we made concessions is moot" Cause quite frankly groups dont stop. If they talk they are in a position to perhaps have further dialogue later on and then maybe be in a position to mediate there differences. Also I imagine information and infiltration possibilities would be more frequent as you got a middle man on the ground building trust with the groups.

 

[hedonis]

Well, I'll tell you what.

When they start actually negotiating- and by that, I don't mean cutting off the heads of journalists or blowing up cafes with civilians in them- maybe I would think western (or hell, even eastern) governments should give it a try.


But they don't negotiate. They terrorize, and they ****.

H

 

[JayJohn85]

Well, I'll tell you what.

When they start actually negotiating- and by that, I don't mean cutting off the heads of journalists or blowing up cafes with civilians in them- maybe I would think western (or hell, even eastern) governments should give it a try.


But they don't negotiate. They terrorize, and they ****.

H

I semi agree with that but you'd fine the dude who got his head chopped off is the dude the government didnt negotiate for. Plus negotiation is the only way short of annihilating them that may prevent further attacks

Option B is in progress all around the world as we speak and its about as effective as ironing out a dent in a car with a sledgehammer. Even if Al Qaeda gets crushed another will spring up to take its place. That may not be immediate but its inevitable.

See Kick ass video for further details:

 

[Doc Scurlock]

the only true way for the western powers to take care of the terrorist problem is to bring back tactics of previous wars.

did we not firebomb 72% of germany and japan to push their infrastructures to the breaking point?

or bomb the holy living **** out of North Vietnam with Operation Linebacker II, dropping well over 50,000 tonnes or bombs in 1972?

the west has for some reason lost its willingness to play rough in the last 40 years, mainly due to the Vietnam era of adults. without that willingness, we will never win this war, period. the US especially(in my view) has to bring back playing rough, stop looking at itself like a cop and more like a warrior. something has to happen for our countries to see what im talking about. its not gonna be pretty, its goiing to be a horrible event, worse than 9/11. im not saying i WANT this to happen, but it is necessary for us to see the light.

but hey, thats just my :2 cents:

That worked because Germany and Japan were developed countries with actual infrastructure. Bombing the **** out of Afghanistan isn't going to do anything unless you want to bomb some dirt road and rundown shacks. And again the terrain is much different where you can hide in caves in Afghanistan and not like Vietnam where you're in a jungle and so you can burn through it and expose enemy targets.

 

[domshooter]

That worked because Germany and Japan were developed countries with actual infrastructure. Bombing the **** out of Afghanistan isn't going to do anything unless you want to bomb some dirt road and rundown shacks. And again the terrain is much different where you can hide in caves in Afghanistan and not like Vietnam where you're in a jungle and so you can burn through it and expose enemy targets.

well i wasnt using those examples quite as literally as you think. they were more examples of the seriousness that needs to be used.

and in Vietnam, there were extremely vast tunnel networks that we barely scratched the top of due to their size over an area, and lack of size in trying to get into them. the caves are basically the same thing. large networks, both natural and man made(tunneled). hard to find due to the large numbers of entrances that could be dead ends, etc etc

 

[meesterperfect]

wow good posts here.

 

[b|gdick]

no they shouldnt. there shouldnt even be terrorist to negotiate with. their behavior is unacceptable no matter why they are doin what they are.gut them all , ******* them and feed their intestins to their dogs while they are still alive.
nasty ass mf sand monkey terrorists, filth of the earth

 

[HELLRAISER]

Of course they should! After all, many western governments are guilty of committing terrorism too since both parties already know how to speak and understand the same terrorist language very well

 

[wanger007]

Of course they should! After all, many western governments are guilty of committing terrorism too since both parties already know how to speak and understand the same terrorist language very well

u mean when christian extremists hijacked that plane and ran it thru a sky scraper ********* 1000's? or emm when the christian suicide bomber flew to israel and blew up a market ******* women/chldrn? ya...right, ur fk delusional

 

[ed007]

^^ you will find terrorists in all religions. the point of this thread is to debate what is the best solution this this problem. according to those whose job it is to advise the British government, this problem is getting worse. something needs to change. also, why didn't you contribute to this thread using your other ID, wanger007 aka ??

we are all adults so we should be able to debate this very serious issue without attacking other board members who don't share your opinion. i respect the opinion of those that believe we should "never" negotiate with terrorists but i respectfully do not agree with them. :2 cents:

 

[Jagger69]

u mean when christian extremists hijacked that plane and ran it thru a sky scraper ********* 1000's? or emm when the christian suicide bomber flew to israel and blew up a market ******* women/chldrn? ya...right, ur fk delusional

Wow....****** after only 2 posts. Is that a record?

 

[BlogtoBlog]

these people are living like their ancestors did 500+ years ago. They're in huts with no electricity & pissed off about it. They look across the world and see us- going from buggy-ships to iphone apps in less than 100 years.
they're pissed & not capable of negotiating. We're fighting an ideology. Even if every jew in Israel was pushed into the Mediterranean they wouldn't be satisfied.
F them.

 

[mrtrebus]

I think the problem is that when the word terrorist is mentioned American's in general only think of Islamic terrorists. There are plenty all over the world that the west has to deal with, like ETA, like the IRA - who some Americans actually supported, even financially! Are these the same Americans now saying we should never negotiate with terrorists?!? One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. So we should attempt to stop terrorism by looking at the causes of it, trying to address it with some sort of attempted dialogue with them not just shooting them. It may be necessary to use ******** but if that's the only tactic, well it will never stop terrorism.

 

[ed007]

I think the problem is that when the word terrorist is mentioned American's in general only think of Islamic terrorists. There are plenty all over the world that the west has to deal with, like ETA, like the IRA - who some Americans actually supported, even financially! Are these the same Americans now saying we should never negotiate with terrorists?!? One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. So we should attempt to stop terrorism by looking at the causes of it, trying to address it with some sort of attempted dialogue with them not just shooting them. It may be necessary to use ******** but if that's the only tactic, well it will never stop terrorism.

Hear! Hear! :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

many people won't like what you have stated but the truth hurts. and "the truth is stranger than fiction." that what i heard a top level British politician say in a recent interview and i think it's so true. :2 cents:

btw why don't we have a British 2p Smilie?

 

[hedonis]

Wow....****** after only 2 posts. Is that a record?

I think it might be! :rofl:

 

[emceeemcee]

these people are living like their ancestors did 500+ years ago. They're in huts with no electricity & pissed off about it. They look across the world and see us- going from buggy-ships to iphone apps in less than 100 years.
they're pissed & not capable of negotiating. We're fighting an ideology. Even if every jew in Israel was pushed into the Mediterranean they wouldn't be satisfied.
F them.

That idea isn't supported by any data. They couldn't give a fuck about our way of life, as long as we don't try and introduce it into their countries.


Read the opinion polling of muslims. They're pissed about American and western foreign policy. They don't like Israel stealing land and ******* Palestinians in the process, they **** western troops occupying muslim countries and they **** they we fund and prop up Arab dictators. I know Michael Sheuer has even mentioned some polling data where a majority of muslims actually respect our way of life, that is where 'way of life' is described as work ethic, ****** life etc...

What further undermines the idea that they're **** is informed by a lack of plasma tvs and fancy couches is the fact that many of the terrorists are often very wealthy and very educated. The 9/11 hijackers had college degrees (all of them i think)

It really does make me scratch my head when I hear people, specifically Americans, talking about how the muslims **** them due to a jealously of a certain lifestyle. It really is beyond belief. The media over there must be just appauling.