Unionized Workers...Good or Bad

[alexios]

Sorry, having worked for companies like Wal*Mart, and getting screwwed royaliy by them, and now my most recent employer, and then being told by the government and other legial services that you mentioned that I have no legal options because said companies own the fucking government, I am 100% pro union, and concider any worker that opposes unions to be traitors to their fellow worker, and any company that opposes unions to be an enemy outright.

How can anyone take you seriously or begin to understand your point of view if all you do is label other people, rant about your experience alone, and sling mud at opposing viewpoints?

If the truth should be told, all anyone has to do is look at how the concept of unions and union membership is faring among the public in any number of polls. There's your answer.

 

[Member2019]

OK...can anyone tell me the last time there was a valid unionized movement that WASN'T due to money or additional benefits, i.e. the last time there was a movement that really dealt with worker protection?

You'd be surprised how many safety-related incidents still happen, and the Unions have to take a stand to protect their people.
The US still has some industry, and the UK as well the last time I checked.

Unions still have a purpose -- especially those organized of and by the people.
You can't rely on OSHA, the government and other federal/state entities.
The individual has and should always have the right to assembly to protect their interests, collectively.

My only and continued argument is that assembly must be freedom as in individual.
Mandated unions take the rights away from the individual and put it in a community, which is the root problem with communism.
When that happens, unions don't work, they got bogged down in conflicting pro-union and pro-employer legislation rather quickly.

But unions themselves, organized by and of the people individually, are a right to free assembly.
And the do work.

 

[poggy]

Here in the UK the unions used to have a lot of power, but along came the Iron Lady (Margret Thatcher) and she ripped alot of that from them. She crushed them really leaving them as a bit of a safety net now for workers. Yeah they can still call strikes for better working conditions or pay. Also help legally if you get sacked and think it was unfair. But there no way as powerfull as they was. Now days their trying more to sell you a loan or insurance than get involded really.

 

[Member2019]

Here in the UK the unions used to have a lot of power, but along came the Iron Lady (Margret Thatcher) and she ripped alot of that from them. She crushed them really leaving them as a bit of a safety net now for workers. Yeah they can still call strikes for better working conditions or pay. Also help legally if you get sacked and think it was unfair. But there no way as powerfull as they was. Now days their trying more to sell you a loan or insurance than get involded really.

Yes, from the power-base unions had in the UK before, they could be considered an ******* trust or monopoly and used their power accordingly.
But as always say, you can't have a trust or monopoly without the government's help.

E.g., over here in the US, Ralph Nader constantly reminds the US government that the way to get Microsoft to change is to think as a consumer, not as a regulator.
I.e., Microsoft wouldn't be such a monopoly if it didn't have the US government as its biggest consumer which ****** everyone else to use their products.

Just like unions, if the government doesn't ***** you to join one, much of the problem is solved.
The balance is restored because people will join good unions if they have such individual choice.

 

[SeraphiM]

Just to give my POV,
I think unions were great at the time they first came into being.
Before unions big business was free to exploit, to lie, to cheat and to take away from workers what was and still is rightfully theirs -- health, a decent wage, a fit place to work.
Without unions OSHA would have never come into being and worker safety wouldn't exist.
Of course like most of the best intentions, it has at times become corrupted.

 

[alexios]

Just to give my POV,
I think unions were great at the time they first came into being.
Before unions big business was free to exploit, to lie, to cheat and to take away from workers what was and still is rightfully theirs -- health, a decent wage, a fit place to work.
Without unions OSHA would have never come into being and worker safety wouldn't exist.
Of course like most of the best intentions, it has at times become corrupted.

Besides the inherent corruption, I think that most of the problems like in the aforementioned areas of "health, a decent wage, a fit place to work." Nobody is trying to deny anyone of their fair share, but the disputes always arise from the definition of what is adequate healthcare, what can be considered a decent wage, and how fit is a fit enough place to work.

 

[SeraphiM]

For there to be an agreement there must be a compromise. Unfortunately more often than not both side refuse to budge.
My job is not unionized and I don't believe that many jobs need to be, but when your talking about inherently hazardous jobs, I think they are necessary to ensure the safety of the worker. Big business has demonstrated time and time again that it will only care about cost effectiveness and not the individual.

 

[pancha]

Well said Seraphim! Particulatly in the construction trades, safety is always a focal point. OSHA never comes out until enough complaints have been made about the practices at the jobsite. Contractors are interested in SPEED, because this helps maximize their profits. They aren't too concerned that an eight foot ladder might be safer than the five footers they supply, or at least not until they have something to lose. Corruption aside, unions still provide services that we would otherwise find difficult to obtain.

 

[Jagger69]

Unions used to serve a real purpose back in the day when workers had no rights and were ******. Now, the pendulum has swung way to far the other way. Unions have outlived their usefullness in my book. There are enough governmental regulations in effect now that protect workers rights.

 

[member2686]

Watch/read the Flash box in blue and then explore the site - you'll be floored by the corruption. I'm a Democrat, but I listen to Rush Limbaugh (gotta know your enemies lol - I agree with him on this one, though), and he cited this site today. Quite timely... :hatsoff: :nanner:

http://www.unionfacts.com

 

[Member2019]

Unions used to serve a real purpose back in the day when workers had no rights and were ******. Now, the pendulum has swung way to far the other way. Unions have outlived their usefullness in my book. There are enough governmental regulations in effect now that protect workers rights.

And enough counter-regulations that inhibit them, to protect employers.

As I said before, the only way unions work is if they are free to do what they want, including giving the individual the right to join them or not.
That's why they worked early on, because unions formed against abusive employers without restriction.
At the same time, unions that ask too much of their employer will quickly find they have far less membership.

Now we just have a buereaucratic nightmare of pro-Union and pro-employer laws that doesn't give either much "real" negotiation power.

Unions are the ultimate form of community, individuals choosing to work together.
Mandated unions are the ultimate form of commuism, individual choice being removed.

 

[Member2019]

Well said Seraphim! Particulatly in the construction trades, safety is always a focal point. OSHA never comes out until enough complaints have been made about the practices at the jobsite. Contractors are interested in SPEED, because this helps maximize their profits. They aren't too concerned that an eight foot ladder might be safer than the five footers they supply, or at least not until they have something to lose. Corruption aside, unions still provide services that we would otherwise find difficult to obtain.

Agreed!

The problem with federated services is that they are slow.
The additional problem is that you can't hold them accountable, they are a federal agency.

People working together as a community can accomplish things far faster, far better and with far less cost than a federal agency.
Unions just work best in that regard, but you can't sack them with legislation or regulation (neither legislation/regulation for nor against).
That just slows their ability to work down, for the same reasons as any ****** and regulated community.

The individual right to freedom of assembly is why unions work, when they are so implemented.

 

[McRocket]

Unions were indispensable to workers powers years ago.

But now I think they generally do more harm then good - though there are always exceptions.

Look at Ford and GM. Their workers have such huge benefits that those two companies might declare bankruptcy just to break the Union contracts because they are SO cost prohibitive.

Somebody has to pay for every benefit. And I would rather have the wages myself then give it to unions.

And job security to me is a joke. How can a company run properly if they are contractually obligated to maintain a certain number of workers even when those workers have little or no work to do due to reduced production?

There are still companies that treat their workers like crap and unions would be good for that.

But I believe that most major corporations these days cannot afford the public outcry from treating their employees badly. So the mass media acts as their union to keep them in line - and at no cost.

Overall, I think unions were generally great at one time. But overall, IMO, I think their time has past.

 

[Magnet]

I am part of a Union and there are good and bad parts to it.

The good being the pay, benefits, so on and so fourth.

The bad being it creates way to many lazy workers. At my job there are so many lazy people, its not funny, and it drives me nuts. I know I could do there job for the them with no help but they always seem to complain and get 1-2 people to help them.

Another bad thing is job security. It the worker is performing, or breaks the rules there is a chance they wont be fired. For example awhile back a bunch of people were fired for failing a **** test. Well since the union was invovled 3 years later those people got there jobs back, PLUS they recieved back pay for the 3 years they missed.

Like I said there are good and bad things about. Its just annoying that people can practicly ****** another person at my job and get away with it.

 

[McRocket]

I am part of a Union and there are good and bad parts to it.

The good being the pay, benefits, so on and so fourth.

The bad being it creates way to many lazy workers. At my job there are so many lazy people, its not funny, and it drives me nuts. I know I could do there job for the them with no help but they always seem to complain and get 1-2 people to help them.

Another bad thing is job security. It the worker is performing, or breaks the rules there is a chance they wont be fired. For example awhile back a bunch of people were fired for failing a **** test. Well since the union was invovled 3 years later those people got there jobs back, PLUS they recieved back pay for the 3 years they missed.

Like I said there are good and bad things about. Its just annoying that people can practicly ****** another person at my job and get away with it.

Interesting.

I knew a guy once who worked (and I think still does) for a unionized major North American auto manufacturer. He knew the system backwards and forwards.
One week he did not feel like going to work, so he didn't. He just did not show up for a week. He did not call in or let anyone know at the plant what was going on.
When he got back he was put on some token probation; but that was it.

Any non-union shop and he is out on his butt.

 

[Facial_King]

The choices available to click on for the poll make the poll itself sort of crazy, I think...

 

[McRocket]

The choices available to click on for the poll make the poll itself sort of crazy, I think...

I have allot of respect for the member (Civickiller80) who started this thread.

But even I have to admit that I found it difficult to answer this poll based solely on the choices given.

 

[calpoon]

I think that they are a good thing. It just doesn't seem right to me that workers are the one's that do all the work, but they get treated like they don't matter at all, and that they often do not have any say in it.

I live in the state of AZ and it's very bad for workers. I've worked for the same company for almost two years now and I still only make minimum wage. I don't have any benefits. We don't even have any program to earn paid vacation or sick days. If you are sick even for one day you personally are required to get someone else to come in and cover your shift, or you have to have a doctors note, otherwise you will get written up. It's the law that a company can fire an employee at any time and they don't have to give them a reason, or any benefits of course. So that means that if you complain about sexual harassment they can fire you for it and even though the harrassment is *******, the termination is perfectly legal. Recently my boss discovered that there is no law that requires a company to give it's employees breaks while on the clock, so we now get no breaks at work, paid or otherwise. We get paid every two weeks, which means that you have to work over 80 hours total in a pay period to get overtime pay. so what they used to do would be to schedule people for 50, 60 hours in one week, working well over 8 hours a day, and then knock it down to 10 or 20 hours the next week, so they didn't go overtime. And now that actually sounds like a good thing, at least we got the hours. Even though we consistantly overshoot the company projections in sales, they say that we need to spend less, so they cut everyone's hours. usually there is only 2 or three employees running the whole building, so they have to do the jobs of three or four other people, of course three or four times more work, no less pay, in fact less pay because your hours are cut.

Why do I stay there you ask? Because it's not the worst job I've had.

 

[sputnikgirl]

Everything depends on what union you're affiliated with. Some unions are good, others aren't so good. My boyfriend's job has a union, and it isn't that great. The only thing it's good at is keeping people there that can't handle the work load. However, I do think places like Wal-Mart need to allow their employees to unionize. They're one of the bigger employers in the country, and they don't have a union? Pretty sad.

 

[McRocket]

Everything depends on what union you're affiliated with. Some unions are good, others aren't so good. My boyfriend's job has a union, and it isn't that great. The only thing it's good at is keeping people there that can't handle the work load. However, I do think places like Wal-Mart need to allow their employees to unionize. They're one of the bigger employers in the country, and they don't have a union? Pretty sad.

I guarantee you though that if Wal-Mart unionized, it's costs would definitely go up and so would their prices.

Whether that is worth it or not? I do not know.

My guess is no.

But I am no expert.