Harley-Davidson is first: Bye, bye USA, Welcome in Europe

[Supafly]

A new total success in the MAGA trip:

Harley-Davidson is moving a part of its production to Europe, thanks to the new tariffs the European Union had to raise to counter Trumps hilarious "National Security Threat" tariffs on various foreign products. Of course, any company that moves production over here, can sell these products on the european market WITHOUT those tariffs. Great job, Donald!

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Who's next?

 

[Johan]

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[Supafly]

:1orglaugh

 

[RJS13]

I used to make clutch cables for Hardly Davidson at Hi-Lex Corp. about 20yrs ago and I can tell you.... They are NOT an American bike, never was as far as I'm concerned. They might be assembled in the USA which allows it to be stamped "Made in the USA" but most of the component parts are made in Japan and China. Just so you know

 

[Jack Davenport]

“ a part”

That said, I am not in favor of tariffs. Once the net losses take over the net gains, he’ll change just like GWB did.

 

[Harpsman]

I used to make clutch cables for Hardly Davidson at Hi-Lex Corp. about 20yrs ago and I can tell you.... They are NOT an American bike, never was as far as I'm concerned. They might be assembled in the USA which allows it to be stamped "Made in the USA" but most of the component parts are made in Japan and China. Just so you know

Still American jobs being lost.

 

[~~whimsy~~]

Still American jobs being lost.

RJ is right in thw end. So are you Harp. Most "American" cars have parts produced in other countries. We do not have a whole American car. Anymore than we have a American phone, computer or TV.

 

[RJS13]

Still American jobs being lost.

No jobs will be lost wanna know why? Because they ain't going anywhere. Hardley Davidson sales are already down and what's gonna happen if they move overseas? Sales are gonna plummet and effect an already struggling company. I said it here so remember this post. I'll kiss your ass if they move overseas. Ain't happening

 

[Rey C.]

RJ is right in thw end. So are you Harp. Most "American" cars have parts produced in other countries. We do not have a whole American car. Anymore than we have a American phone, computer or TV.

True. The days of GM/Ford/Chrysler (or Harley) owing all of the associated component manufacturers, and making all the parts here, are over. Countries that have cheap labor have made it difficult to compete on a cost basis. But at the same time, with advanced automated manufacturing, this gap can close... and it is. With greater use of CNCs and automation, certain close tolerance components are being produced here and they are cost competitive, because one (higher paid) American can run multiple machines, while the overseas transportation costs are negated.

I agree that Trump has to be VERY careful in how he plays this tariff game. Our economy is now in more solid growth mode, and the last thing we need is a Smoot-Hawley type situation. But at the same time, it is high time that this country addressed the unfair trade practices of countries that have gotten a free ride here, while applying tariffs on our exported goods that are 10x or 20x what ours are. Clinton didn't deal with it. Bush didn't deal with it. Obama didn't deal with it. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the Club for Growth were all patsies. Like most everyone else, I don't want this to devolve into an all out trade war. But (to borrow a phrase from the whiny feminist movement): Time's Up!

 

[sean miguel]

^ yep.

President Trump is playing with fire, but one that needed to be lit.

 

[~~whimsy~~]

Can't rep you Rey. But I figure you'd come in to add more info.

 

[Rey C.]

Thanks. It's just that while I believe in free trade, it's just as important that we also have fair, free trade. And it's a plain fact that one of the reasons that so many American manufacturing jobs have been lost over the past two decades is because of our limp-wristed Presidents and Congress people allowing other countries to drive our workers out of their jobs by hammering our products with onerous tariffs. The way I see it, product category by product category, we should match whatever tariff other countries place on our products, until they reduce their tariffs and begin fair trade practices. Childish? Maybe. But if you punch me in the arm (when I'm bigger and stronger than you are) and I punch you in the arm right back, punch for punch, when your arm goes numb, I figure you'll see the light and stop your foolishness. Then, and only then, can we start playing nice with each other. That's where mutual respect starts, right? :dunno:

The U.S. is still THE import market that is most important to a great many multi-nationals. Sure, China and India are important, but good luck growing your company if you get shut out here and you have to rely on those two, or even the EU. I don't want this to get silly. But I do think it's time for a dose of reality. We'll say "ouch"... they'll scream in pain.

 

[bobjustbob]

Making parts? We can do that here. "We don't need your stinking parts." We have many machine shops that can chug out parts for motorcycles, automobiles, washing machines, electrical lighting, earth moving equipment, computer ****, everything. Can USA plants tool up? Sure can. Engineering graduates come in and design products. Trained machine operators are paid a good wage to measure and cut to a quality control to the 10th of a MM.

Here's the thing, a manufacturer has a decision to sell to a market. Buy their parts and ship or create a plant there. Moving the plant may mean paying enormous tax to the nation hosting the manufacturing plant.

The same holds for the farmers. The threat to the soy bean people having their overseas customers reduced is of a serious concern. What will they do? Grow something else. Wheat, barley, corn. Build up cattle and poultry for eggs and meat.

The hit on aluminum and steel can be worked out with Canada. We'll pick up the shipping cost gladly as long as you don't be a dick when we ship our **** that you want back. Mexico? Can we please have you have some of pro-action about people crossing? We consume and benefit from the products you produce. But come on guys, don't sell your products for a waiver to let people cross the boarder. Straighten your **** out and have these people have a reason to stay and work on your own land.

 

[Chopper3000]

The company I work for manufacture a component that goes into Harley bikes for a number of years now. In fact the latest upgrade in place for around 5 years I was on the project team developing it. So in essence there is a little bit of me in a number of Harley's on the road. God bless 'america.

 

[sean miguel]

harley davidson announced they were moving some production overseas earlier this year before the tariffs were announced (nevermind took effect).

they have a declining and aging customer base.

old school cool only goes so far apparently.

 

[Rey C.]

harley davidson announced they were moving some production overseas earlier this year before the tariffs were announced (nevermind took effect).

they have a declining and aging customer base.

old school cool only goes so far apparently.

In the media's zeal to whack Trump (and Harley's desire to hang this on someone other than management), this little tidbit was missed. This plan has been in development for quite some time. Shifting production to a different continent in a manufacturing environment isn't something that happens overnight. Logistics planning alone takes months.

As far as Harley's customer base, you've touched on something rather ironic. Other than maybe a firearms company, I can't think of a company with a more conservative customer base than Harley. I mean, once the "a Harley for every Yuppie" days of the 80's were done, Harley has struggled with expanding its customer base in the U.S. They've tried to appeal to women fairly recently. But because of the macho image of Harley, appealing to women has brought about less of an appeal to middle aged men (its REAL customer base). These middle aged men, who fancy themselves as weekend 1%'ers, don't want a "chick bike", any more than sports car guys my age want a "chick car". Now, you might find more than a few gay riders clubs and all women riders clubs, but the base is middle aged (and older) guys who can afford to spend $20 grand+ on a motorcycle (a weekend toy that allows them to dress up in leathers). And those guys tend to be much more conservative than the average person, IMO.

So anyway, I just found it kind of odd that Harley would be doing something that might alienate its base. Hell, it would be like Apple doing something that might **** off the LGBTQ(ABCDEFG) or feminist crowd - and Harley is even more tied to the right than Apple is to the left IMO.

 

[Chopper3000]

The other thing you have failed to mention is that Harley's on the grand scheme of things are totally crap bikes.

 

[Rey C.]

I've owned a number of Jaguars over the past 30 years, so I'll reserve comment on that one.

I honestly don't know very much about Harley's quality scores these days. Just going by what I hear from friends who own bikes, Harleys are MUCH more reliable and have better fit & finish than they did back in the (AMF) 70's. But they probably aren't as reliable as say Hondas and the other Japanese makes. But they also don't depreciate as badly as the Nipponese bikes either.

If I had cash to burn, and I wanted something to set in the garage (just to) look at, I could see myself buying a Harley. Maybe a Schumacheresque 2004 V-rod. And since I'm spending cash that I don't have, I'd go ahead and buy a Ducati 916 Senna too.

 

[bodie54]

In the media's zeal to whack Trump (and Harley's desire to hang this on someone other than management), this little tidbit was missed.

If that's the case why didn't Le Grande Orange make note of that, rather than threatening HD with increased taxes?

 

[sean miguel]

If that's the case why didn't Le Grande Orange make note of that, rather than threatening HD with increased taxes?

he did make note of that (HD's prior announcement), which is the reason I'm aware of it.