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Why ordinary people turn terrorist

GodsEmbryo

Closed Account
New studies explore why ordinary people turn terrorist

Research in the Iraqi war zone point to key characteristics among ISIS soldiers and their opponents
By Bruce Bower - 1:00pm, June 23, 2016

Fierce combat erupted in February 2016 at the northern Iraqi village of Kudilah. A Western-backed coalition of Arab Sunni tribesmen, Kurds in the Iraqi army and Kurdish government forces advanced on Islamic State fighters who had taken over the dusty outpost.

Islamic State combatants, led by young men wearing explosive vests, fought back. The well-trained warriors scurried through battle lines until they reached their enemy. Then they blew themselves up along with a few coalition soldiers, setting the stage for an Islamic State victory. These suicide bombers are called inghamasi, meaning “those who dive in deep.”

The inghamasi’s determination and self-sacrifice inspires their comrades to fight to the death, says anthropologist Scott Atran of the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. Outnumbered about 6-to-1, Islamic State fighters still retained control of Kudilah after two days of heavy fighting. Coalition forces retreated, unwilling to lose more soldiers.

Atran and colleagues arrived in northern Iraq a couple of weeks later. Their plan: study “the will to fight” among soldiers on both sides of the Kudilah clash, even as fighting in the area continued. Their goals: try to understand what motivates people to join brutal organizations such as the Islamic State, and describe the personal transformations that push people leading comfortable, peaceable lives to commit acts of incredible violence and self-destruction.

Atran wondered whether there were common individual traits that explain the fierce devotion held by fighters for the Islamic State (also known as ISIS, ISIL or Daesh) as well as troops trying to take down ISIS. Scientists typically treat extreme sacrifice for others as premised on a careful weighing of pros and cons by “rational actors” who behave in a way that best satisfies their own interests even if others benefit as well. But it’s hard to see how a “what’s in it for me” formula applies to inghamasi, Atran says, much less someone who operates in a more conventionally altruistic way, such as a Navy SEAL. It’s a mistake to write off ISIS fighters as lonely losers, each seeking death as a gateway to a heavenly rendezvous with a private stock of virgins, he contends.

To break out of the rational-actor rut, Atran shifted his experimental focus nearly a decade ago to examine cherished values that mobilize people to take collective action, regardless of risks or rewards. In the last several years, he has moved his studies to the field, to focus on combatants in current conflicts and their sympathizers. And he’s finding that extreme personal sacrifices made for outfits such as the Islamic State can be understood, but only by accounting for values he describes as “sacred” and by tracking the way in which individuals identify with like-minded comrades.

Collective identity

Academics who study warfare and terrorism typically don’t conduct research just kilometers from the front lines of battle. But taking the laboratory to the fight is crucial for figuring out what impels people to make the ultimate sacrifice to, for example, impose Islamic law on others, says Atran, who is affiliated with the National Center for Scientific Research in Paris.

Atran’s war zone research over the last few years, and interviews during the last decade with members of various groups engaged in militant jihad (or holy war in the name of Islamic law), give him a gritty perspective on this issue. He rejects popular assumptions that people frequently join up, fight and die for terrorist groups due to mental problems, poverty, brainwashing or savvy recruitment efforts by jihadist organizations.

Instead, he argues, young people adrift in a globalized world find their own way to ISIS, looking to don a social identity that gives their lives significance. Groups of dissatisfied young adult friends around the world — often with little knowledge of Islam but yearning for lives of profound meaning and glory — typically choose to become volunteers in the Islamic State army in Syria and Iraq, Atran contends. Many of these individuals connect via the internet and social media to form a global community of alienated youth seeking heroic sacrifice, he proposes.

Preliminary experimental evidence suggests that not only global terrorism, but also festering state and ethnic conflicts, revolutions and even human rights movements —  think of the U.S. civil rights movement in the 1960s — depend on what Atran refers to as devoted actors. These individuals, he argues, will sacrifice themselves, their families and anyone or anything else when a volatile mix of conditions are in play. First, devoted actors adopt values they regard as sacred and nonnegotiable, to be defended at all costs. Then, when they join a like-minded group of nonkin that feels like a family — a band of brothers — a collective sense of invincibility and special destiny overwhelms feelings of individuality. As members of a tightly bound group that perceives its sacred values under attack, devoted actors will kill and die for each other.

His team’s studies of devoted actors may help to explain why a growing number of people from around the world are leaving their families and home nations to join ISIS. Congressional and United Nations reports suggest that by October 2015, nearly 30,000 recruits from more than 100 countries had become fighters in Syria and Iraq, primarily for the Islamic State.

“The rise of the Islamic State is a revolutionary movement of historic proportions,” Atran says. “Many of its members are devoted actors with an apocalyptic belief that they must destroy the world to save it.” That uncompromising vision feeds off the promise of a global caliphate — a joint political and Islamic entity that kills or controls nonbelievers — that will bring on the end of the world and replace it with God’s true kingdom. Volunteers to that cause have participated in more than 50 terror attacks in 20 countries since June 2014. Muslim militants carried out 450 suicide bombing attacks in 2015, with 174 attributed to the Islamic State.

Atran’s research may provide a rare tool to study soldiers’ will to fight, whether or not they’re Islamic State adherents, says psychologist and terrorism researcher John Horgan of Georgia State University in Atlanta. Too many investigators have dismissed those deemed to be terrorists “as either incomprehensible or not even worthy of understanding,” Horgan says.

At the time of the Kudilah battle, the Islamic State controlled hundreds of thousands of square kilometers in the Middle East. It had successfully defended a 3,000-kilometer-long military front stretching from Iraq to Syria against multi-national forces. It’s certainly possible to destroy the Islamic State with overwhelming military might, Atran says, but that approach would come at a price. It would leave a fragmented Sunni Muslim world, from which the Islamic State arose, as well as a global pool of passionate young men and women seeking liberation through sacrifice and martyrdom. A military takedown alone might trigger “a volcanic resurgence of rebels with a cause, even readier for doomsday,” he predicts.

Sacred apocalyptic values are best opposed by the spread of deeply held, life- and freedom-affirming values that supporters are willing to defend unconditionally, Atran argues. The Kurds have had success with this approach.

Making connections

Direct recruiting by militant organizations appears to be up since 2013. But social networks are still an important source of volunteers for groups such as ISIS.
The top three ways jihad volunteers are recruited:

  • 1/2 Via direct personal contact with militant group members
  • 1/5 Through social networks of friends and family
  • 1/5 Via internet contact only

Existing relationships are important:

  • 3/4 of those who become foreign fighters travel in a group, often with people they know, such as friends and family

Sources: S. Atran, Combating Terrorism Center

Sacred kin

In the Middle East, only Kurdish people living in northern Iraq have consistently held off Islamic State attacks. The Kurds, Atran finds, display a will to fight equal to that of captured Islamic State fighters. As important as guns and other material support are to a military operation, an indomitable will to fight may be even more crucial, he says. Both the Islamic State and the Kurdish army have achieved considerable military success without all the hardware of Western armies.

At Kudilah, Kurdish soldiers showed their mettle in a fierce clash. Several of these men later described the event to Atran. As Iraqi army units withdrew, Islamic State forces rapidly pushed forward. A small company of Kurds stood their ground. After the fight raged for several hours, Iraqi army reinforcements arrived, enabling the Kurds to live to fight another day.

Atran’s team interviewed 28 Kurdish soldiers plus 10 Kurds who provided supplies, medical care and other frontline assistance. Seven Islamic State fighters, six of them prisoners, also agreed to be interviewed. One had been freed and changed sides, working with groups opposed to the Islamic State.

Among the 38 Kurdish volunteers, 22 reported devotion to a homeland of “Kurdistan” as a sacred value that they would fight and die for, even overriding family ties and their Islamic religion, Atran reports in the June Current Anthropology. All but one of the 22 reported feeling a collective bond, or what Atran calls identity fusion, with the Kurdish people.

Captured ISIS members reported visceral, family-like bonds with their fellow fighters. All Islamic State prisoners cited an absolute commitment to an imposition of Islamic law, or Sharia, on nonbelievers.

Investigators measured identity fusion by presenting participants with touch-screen computer tablets showing a small circle labeled “me” and a large circle with a group label, such as “Kurds” or “family.” To represent their relationship to a particular group, individuals could move the circles together so that they partly or completely overlapped. Those who moved the small circle inside the large circle were regarded as fully fused with that group.

Atran adopted this test from ongoing research initiated nearly a decade ago by psychologist William Swann of the University of Texas at Austin. An international team led by social anthropologist Harvey Whitehouse of the University of Oxford, including Swann, studied Libyan men who tried to overthrow their government in 2011. The researchers found that nearly all the men reported intense, family-like bonds with fellow combatants. Revolutionary leaders granted the researchers access to 42 Libyan soldiers and 137 support personnel, including mechanics and ambulance drivers, as hostilities wound down in late 2011.

On the overlapping circles test, 45 percent of fighters reported being more strongly bonded to their battalions of three to five comrades than to their families, the researchers reported in 2014 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. A smaller portion of support personnel, 28 percent, identified more with revolutionary battalions than with their families. That’s consistent with the idea that frontline fighters most often bond tightly to their units, upping their readiness to give their lives for comrades.

Libyan soldiers who felt intense connections to their battalions probably qualified as devoted actors, says psychologist Hammad Sheikh of the New School for Social Research in New York City, who was not involved in Whitehouse’s study. The soldiers’ commitment to the revolution’s goals probably transcended even family loyalties, Sheikh suspects. He bases that opinion on Atran’s findings. Whitehouse’s team did not try to identify devoted actors among Libyan fighters.

People willing to sacrifice everything in defense of the Islamic State’s sacred values also exist outside of the war zone. Among 260 Moroccans who lived in either of two city neighborhoods known as pro-ISIS hotbeds, testing indicated that about 30 percent were devoted actors. They described the imposition of Sharia as a nonnegotiable necessity, Sheikh and his colleagues, including Atran, report in a second paper in the June Current Anthropology.

On the overlapping circles test, devoted actors in Morocco depicted especially close bonds with family-like groups of friends, ranging from Islamic State supporters to soccer buddies.


Western weakness

Such dedication to collective values may be tougher to come by in Western nations. Online testing of 644 people in Spain identified only 12 percent as devoted actors willing to sacrifice all for democracy, even after being reminded of threats by ISIS and Al Qaeda. Frequent corruption scandals have left many Spaniards disillusioned with democracy, Sheikh says. Whether a similarly weak devotion to democratic values applies to citizens of other European countries or the United States remains to be tested.

Field research suggests that collective commitments to democratic values may be weaker in the West. When devoted actors among Islamic State fighters, Kurds and members of a Kurdish-speaking religious community known as Yazidis were given a hypothetical choice between abandoning their sacred values if others in their group do, or leaving the group to fight on for their sacred values, they nearly always opted to fight on for their values, Atran says.

Devoted actors in Spain, however, typically say they’d follow their group if it rejected democratic values. People in France and Spain tested by Atran’s team also rate their own society’s “spiritual force,” or the strength of collective beliefs and commitments, as much weaker than that of ISIS.

Among U.S., British and former Soviet soldiers, there have long been indications from interviews, field reports and personal letters of a stronger willingness to die for close comrades in war than in defense of broader values, Atran says. Historical evidence, however, suggests that certain relentless fighters, including Nazi troops during World War II and Viet Cong soldiers in the Vietnam War, were devoted actors inspired by beliefs in a higher cause, he says, adding that the same may have been true for soldiers on both sides of the U.S. Civil War.


Sacrificial appeal

Atran and his colleagues now have their own cause: describing more fully how some people go from holding extreme beliefs on the sidelines to becoming devoted actors at the front lines of extreme movements.

It would help, says political psychologist Clark McCauley of Bryn Mawr College in Pennsylvania, if researchers could clarify what counts as a sacred value and why some sacred values outweigh others. Identity fusion is also a tricky concept to pin down, McCauley says. Further research needs to determine whether a person who moves a “me” circle inside a circle representing a fighting unit still feels a sense of individuality or totally buys into a collective identity, he suggests.

Only by venturing into war zones can researchers begin to understand the will to fight on all sides, from the perspectives of the fighters themselves, Atran argues. It’s daunting work. He has seen ISIS fighters advancing on an Iraqi army outpost, then detonating their explosive vests in the ultimate show of commitment to their cause. He has spoken to Kurdish veterans missing arms or legs and men who had joined the Kurdish army back in the 1950s, all of them now fighting at the front to defend their homeland.

A young Yazidi fighter told Atran that he used vacation time from college to train for a week with Kurdish Marxists in Syria to defend his Kurdish religious community against the Islamic State. Fighting with a few comrades in August 2014, the student-soldier fended off ISIS attackers long enough for reinforcements to arrive. He helped save thousands of Yazidis from slaughter. The young man then returned to his studies. He wanted to be an archaeologist.

“You learn more in five minutes in the field than in five years of analysis from afar,” Atran says.

Despite careful planning, Atran’s team sometimes gets distressingly close to warring parties while conducting research in Iraq. It’s an unavoidable risk but not a deal breaker for the researchers. “There’s something so compelling,” he says, “about trying to figure out humans in extreme circumstances such as war.”

Radical ties

A tight-knit network of friends within the Islamic State, connected to arms dealers, human traffickers, document forgers and others, carried out the November 2015 Paris attacks and the March 2016 Brussels attacks, say social psychologist Nafees Hamid of the Jean Nicod Institute in Paris and anthropologist Scott Atran. Individuals who took part in both attacks used their many connections to carry out the two operations and evade capture, Atran says. This preliminary reconstruction of social ties among some of the attackers shows that many were sponsored by the same high-ranking Islamic State mentor (center diamond) and several came from the same families, locales and hometown peer groups.


In a different network of ISIS supporters, this one online, women serve as key messengers, reports computer scientist Stefan Wuchty of the University of Miami in Coral Gables, Fla., and colleagues June 10 in Science Advances. Men outnumbered women, but women maintained many more direct contacts with more people, giving them a big advantage in transmitting information.

Jihadi networks depend on women’s contributions, Atran adds. Mothers in some radicalized neighborhoods actively recruit others to join the Islamic State, travel to expand recruiting and encourage their kids to fight in Syria, he says. About one in three French citizens who travel to Syria to join ISIS are women, Atran estimates. — Bruce Bower

source: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-studies-explore-why-ordinary-people-turn-terrorist

In short:

- A study of “the will to fight” among soldiers on both sides to try to understand what motivates people to join brutal organizations such as the Islamic State, and to describe the personal transformations that push people leading comfortable, peaceable lives to commit acts of incredible violence and self-destruction.

- He [Atran] rejects popular assumptions that people frequently join up, fight and die for terrorist groups due to mental problems, poverty, brainwashing or savvy recruitment efforts by jihadist organizations.

- He argues that young people adrift in a globalized world find their own way to ISIS, looking to don a social identity that gives their lives significance. These individuals connect via the internet and social media to form a global community of alienated youth seeking heroic sacrifice. They adopt values they regard as sacred and nonnegotiable, to be defended at all costs. Then, when they join a like-minded group of nonkin that feels like a family — a band of brothers — a collective sense of invincibility and special destiny overwhelms feelings of individuality. As members of a tightly bound group that perceives its sacred values under attack, devoted actors will kill and die for each other.
 

meesterperfect

Hiliary 2020
Wow that's a lot of words.
I can sum it up in a few words.

Because the USA pays well.

I hope the people of the USA and the world get out of this state of denial and face the facts, the proven facts, the irrefutable fact that ISIS or whatever they call it these days was created by and armed and funded by the USA. They are well paid mercenaries from all over the world.
It's hard for many to face the truth about what their GOV has become plus all the lies from the news outlets across the board clouding peoples perspective doesn't help much either.

It's true.
 

BCsSecretAlias

Closed Account
Former prosecutor Andrew McCarthy studied the Qur'an while preparing the case against Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman. His goal was to present a case as to how Rahman had perverted Islam. After studying the Qur'an it became clear that Rahman had not perverted anything. He was following the " moderate, peaceful" teachings of the "good book". You can dance around this, psychoanalyze all you want. Islam is creating these terrorists.

http://www.therebel.media/andy_mccarthy_islam_is_not_a_religion_of_peace
 
Andrew McCarthy

Questions Obama's citizenship
Claims Islam is not a religion
Wrongfully claimed Obama gave 1.5 billion to the muslim brotherhood
Served at neoconservative FDD
Defended Michelle Bachmann's attacks on muslim-americans working in the Obama administration (funny how nodoby cared that nearly as many worked for Bush)
Favors the abolition of medicare
Claims Orlando transcripts redacted because "the government is becoming sharia-adherent"

Sounds like a clear-headed, objective source.

:rolleyes:
 

BCsSecretAlias

Closed Account
Served at neoconservative FDD
You are questioning his bonafides based upon being a neo-conservative? Aren't you a Bernie supporter? Bwahahaha
Defended Michelle Bachmann's attacks on muslim-americans working in the Obama administration (funny how nodoby cared that nearly as many worked for Bush)
Were Muslims afforded prayer rugs and breaks for prayer during the GWB presidency? Is Bachmann not entitled to having someone defend her?
Favors the abolition of medicare
There are better alternatives than this entitlement.
Claims Orlando transcripts redacted because "the government is becoming sharia-adherent"

Sounds like a clear-headed, objective source.

:rolleyes:
He is and Orlando transcripts were redacted for some sinister reason. Would love to hear your theory. Basically you don't agree with his ideology so he is wrong. Shall we list the reasonable people you listen to?
 

BCsSecretAlias

Closed Account
Questions Obama's citizenship
He works for Jonah Goldberg and Charles Cooke at NRO. They frown on such things. Link?
Islam is not a religion
He's half right. It's a religious cult. Muslims also claim Christ is not the son of God. Maybe McCarthy is a biased Christian in that respect.
claimed Obama gave 1.5 billion to the muslim brotherhood
We had been giving Saddat and Mubarek aid. The Muslim Brotherhood was in control of parliament. He didn't send it to SCAF. The aid should have been subject to review after MB took control. His statement was not wrong.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
source: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/new-studies-explore-why-ordinary-people-turn-terrorist

In short:

- A study of “the will to fight” among soldiers on both sides to try to understand what motivates people to join brutal organizations such as the Islamic State, and to describe the personal transformations that push people leading comfortable, peaceable lives to commit acts of incredible violence and self-destruction.

- He [Atran] rejects popular assumptions that people frequently join up, fight and die for terrorist groups due to mental problems, poverty, brainwashing or savvy recruitment efforts by jihadist organizations.

- He argues that young people adrift in a globalized world find their own way to ISIS, looking to don a social identity that gives their lives significance. These individuals connect via the internet and social media to form a global community of alienated youth seeking heroic sacrifice. They adopt values they regard as sacred and nonnegotiable, to be defended at all costs. Then, when they join a like-minded group of nonkin that feels like a family — a band of brothers — a collective sense of invincibility and special destiny overwhelms feelings of individuality. As members of a tightly bound group that perceives its sacred values under attack, devoted actors will kill and die for each other.

All very interesting. Thanks for posting. Identifying the (true) major contributors would be a helpful first step in combating this issue. Unfortunately, political correctness/bias on the left and the right, prevents many people from delving deeper. Too many people have predetermined beliefs and cannot be led by the data. When you have an Attorney General on the left who says that they can be defeated with love :)rolleyes:), and people on the right who believe that an entire religion (with a couple of billion people in its ranks ;)) is the root cause, it just doesn't give me much hope that any sort of meaningful solution is going to be found to this issue in my lifetime.
 

BCsSecretAlias

Closed Account
13 percent of Muslims have a favorable view of al-Qaeda and feel jihad is justified. That is 260 million Muslims. Just a fucking blip on the radar.

Next ask us how many are in favor of Sharia Law. I am glad you aren't in charge of anything when it comes to national security.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
13 percent of Muslims have a favorable view of al-Qaeda and feel jihad is justified. That is 260 million Muslims. Just a fucking blip on the radar.

Next ask us how many are in favor of Sharia Law. I am glad you aren't in charge of anything when it comes to national security.

As if you're going to be getting a call from the State Dept. any time soon? :rofl:

In a large population, yes, 13% (if that is accurate) represents a lot of people. Math is math, right? So doing things that would increase that 13% to 26% seems like a rather illogical strategy to me. Perhaps a Cliff Notes reading of Sun Tzu might advance a better way forward, rather than continuing to do what hasn't worked for the past decade and a half.
 

BCsSecretAlias

Closed Account
As if you're going to be getting a call from the State Dept. any time soon? :rofl:

In a large population, yes, 13% (if that is accurate) represents a lot of people. Math is math, right? So doing things that would increase that 13% to 26% seems like a rather illogical strategy to me. Perhaps a Cliff Notes reading of Sun Tzu might advance a better way forward, rather than continuing to do what hasn't worked for the past decade and a half.
perhaps not but that doesn't preclude me from assessing those that should only be arm chairing policy. I did however grow up with one parent that held numerous security clearances and at the highest levels, so I know a little about protocol.

Let's lay Sun Tzu aside for later and break it down even more. Let's say just 1 percent of the 13 percent decide to carry out jihad. That's over 2 and a half million willing to wage war. Guess who they want to wage it against? It's nice to be stuck in the middle, only occasionally having to choose,sides while idealogues do the heavy lifting. I may give it a try one of these days.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Lighten up, Francis.
 

meesterperfect

Hiliary 2020
most western people who have spent time in Arab or Muslim countries have only positive things to say about the people and the culture and the way they were treated while there.

you are all being duped, at least a lot of you. manipulated to the fullest. falling for government/media propaganda designed to clash two cultures and continue the agenda of endless war and destruction.
a few years ago I never would have said this but what if you were a libyan or syrian or iraqi or palestinian ect ect ect and your country and your home was bombed the hell out of? maybe you've even lost a child or other loved one. or you've witnessed or been a victim of the daily atrocities the west has done to you and your people.
then you'd have a real reason to hate the other side.

this guy says it in 2 minutes.

 

BCsSecretAlias

Closed Account
How much time is required to have spent there before we are enlightened?As for positive experiences while there, most Westerners are respectful of their culture and don't try to change it or influence it. Maybe they should try respecting ours when they come here. I with my family, visited tourist attractions that were later the site of terrorist attacks. Where are the examples of the media pitting cultures against each other? Most media tries to cast Islam in a positive light. No other culture on earth brings as much violence to civilized societies as Islamic culture. If their houses are destroyed and they lost family members they can trace it back to what is taught in their 7th century religion. They have no one to blame but themselves.
 

GodsEmbryo

Closed Account
[...] You can dance around this, psychoanalyze all you want. Islam is creating these terrorists.

This study does not make any claims about Islam itself. It looks at the factors and values why someone is prepared to go any lenghts.

All very interesting. Thanks for posting. Identifying the (true) major contributors would be a helpful first step in combating this issue. Unfortunately, political correctness/bias on the left and the right, prevents many people from delving deeper. Too many people have predetermined beliefs and cannot be led by the data. When you have an Attorney General on the left who says that they can be defeated with love :)rolleyes:), and people on the right who believe that an entire religion (with a couple of billion people in its ranks ;)) is the root cause, it just doesn't give me much hope that any sort of meaningful solution is going to be found to this issue in my lifetime.

I'm glad someone understands the article and why these studies are important :hatsoff:

most western people who have spent time in Arab or Muslim countries have only positive things to say about the people and the culture and the way they were treated while there. [...]

I would agree. I can't generalize of course but all the people I know who spent time there had a good experience with the people and culture. Some colleagues of mine went to the Zaatari refugee camp in Jordan recently and they were very impressed with the positive vibe and warm welcome.

13 percent of Muslims have a favorable view of al-Qaeda and feel jihad is justified. That is 260 million Muslims.

You need to be careful with numbers. Unless you can show a survey that was done globally this 13 percent only accounts for the region and the context it was done for. So that makes the number of 260 million Muslims useless.
That being said I do find these kind of surveys and polls quite troublesome. I've read several surveys made in England, France and Belgium where a significant minority justified violence or terrorism. However, they also show the importance of studies like the above as these serveys also show how they feel alienated, ignored or excluded. So it's no surprise to me when the author of the study says: "young people adrift in a globalized world find their own way to ISIS, looking to don a social identity that gives their lives significance"
 
ordinary? nope most people who turn terrorists are ex criminals and drug addicts, but the media wont give a shit, they just look them up on their surface and not as human beings but like something useless, something like a human that has been bought or something....
they have their personal issues that make them get easily brainwashed by these terrorist groups who you can easy find anywhere on the net thanking the secret government agencies, by purpose maybe...
 

BCsSecretAlias

Closed Account
This study does not make any claims about Islam itself. It looks at the factors and values why someone is prepared to go any lenghts.



I'm glad someone understands the article and why these studies are important :hatsoff:



I would agree. I can't generalize of course but all the people I know who spent time there had a good experience with the people and culture. Some colleagues of mine went to the Zaatari refugee camp in Jordan recently and they were very impressed with the positive vibe and warm welcome.



You need to be careful with numbers. Unless you can show a survey that was done globally this 13 percent only accounts for the region and the context it was done for. So that makes the number of 260 million Muslims useless.
That being said I do find these kind of surveys and polls quite troublesome. I've read several surveys made in England, France and Belgium where a significant minority justified violence or terrorism. However, they also show the importance of studies like the above as these serveys also show how they feel alienated, ignored or excluded. So it's no surprise to me when the author of the study says: "young people adrift in a globalized world find their own way to ISIS, looking to don a social identity that gives their lives significance"
While the article may not be singling out Islam, the first sentence of your post mentions ISIS. The last time I checked ISIS weren't spouting Calvinism and Predestination. I don't have to be careful with numbers at all. The polls were conducted in the US. I am sure you are familiar with UK opinion polls. I guess you expect the numbers to be lower in predominately Muslim countries. :rolleyes
 

BCsSecretAlias

Closed Account
So? The argument still stands.



Good to know we don't have to take you seriously
Based upon the fact that Muslims in the most civilized regions of the Western world advocate jihad at dangerous levels and my valid point about predominately Muslim countries wouldn't skew the numbers, it seems you shouldn't be taken seriously and my previous assessment of your capacity was flawed.
 

GodsEmbryo

Closed Account
Why do you always feel attacked? Can't you just have a decent discussion without spewing bitterness and sarcasm and what not? It's weird since I agree with you about surveys showing troublesome results...

From wikipedia:

Extrapolation is the process of estimating, beyond the original observation range, the value of a variable on the basis of its relationship with another variable. It is similar to interpolation, which produces estimates between known observations, but extrapolation is subject to greater uncertainty and a higher risk of producing meaningless results.

Since you are extrapolating a poll done in the US to a global scale, these numbers might be skewed, hence why I say you need to be careful and the number of 260 million muslims is useless. A poll made by the Pew Research Center show those numbers are somewhere roughly around 63 million. And while 63 million is still troublesome it indeed shows your extrapolation is incorrect.

[...] I guess you expect the numbers to be lower in predominately Muslim countries. :rolleyes
[...] and my valid point about predominately Muslim countries wouldn't skew the numbers [...]

As weird as it may seem your point actually isn't that valid. Here's the poll and the article by the Pew Research Center.

In nations with significant Muslim populations, much disdain for ISIS



[...] According to newly released data that the Pew Research Center collected in 11 countries with significant Muslim populations, people from Nigeria to Jordan to Indonesia overwhelmingly expressed negative views of ISIS. One exception was Pakistan, where a majority offered no definite opinion of ISIS. The nationally representative surveys were conducted as part of the Pew Research Center’s annual global poll in April and May this year. In no country surveyed did more than 15% of the population show favorable attitudes toward Islamic State. And in those countries with mixed religious and ethnic populations, negative views of ISIS cut across these lines.

In Lebanon, a victim of one of the most recent attacks, almost every person surveyed who gave an opinion had an unfavorable view of ISIS, including 99% with a very unfavorable opinion. Distaste toward ISIS was shared by Lebanese Sunni Muslims (98% unfavorable) and 100% of Shia Muslims and Lebanese Christians. Israelis (97%) and Jordanians (94%) were also strongly opposed to ISIS as of spring 2015, including 91% of Israeli Arabs. And 84% in the Palestinian territories had a negative view of ISIS, both in the Gaza Strip (92%) and the West Bank (79%). Six-in-ten or more had unfavorable opinions of ISIS in a diverse group of nations, including Indonesia, Turkey, Nigeria, Burkina Faso, Malaysia and Senegal.

In Nigeria, there was somewhat more support for ISIS (14% favorable) compared with other countries, but attitudes differed sharply by religious affiliation. An overwhelming number of Nigerian Christians (71%) had an unfavorable view of ISIS, as did 61% of Nigerian Muslims. However, 20% of Nigerian Muslims had a favorable view of ISIS when the poll was conducted in the spring of this year. The group Boko Haram in Nigeria, which has been conducting a terrorist campaign in the country for years, is affiliated with ISIS, though the two are considered separate entities.

Only 28% in Pakistan had an unfavorable view of ISIS, and a majority of Pakistanis (62%) had no opinion on the extremist group. [...]



http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/
http://www.skeptical-science.com/people/exactly-how-much-support-does-isis-have/

Isn't it weird that 7% of the Christians surveyed in Nigeria and 6% of the Buddhists surveyed in Malaysia support ISIS? (I'm sure you would agree with me that it's useless nonsense to extrapolate those numbers to a global scale and say so and so many millions of Christians and Buddhists in the world support ISIS). And isn't it weird that there's more support for ISIS in some western countries then in most of the mentioned muslim countries? That's because there is a reason for that, hence why you need scientists to study and explain it.

Why the fuck do I always need to explain things...
 
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