WHO still deflecting blame for China.

[zeeblofowl_1969]

Just read a report online that WHO wrote and it seems to want to blame the world community for slow reaction to the crisis.
Completely ignoring the withholding of early information by the Chinese and the blatant weaponization of the virus during the Chinese New Year.
This puppet organization needs new leadership that isn’t corrupt.

 

[D-rock]

Anybody with half a brain could tell the situation was extremely serious in the very early days of the pandemic with or without anything the Chinese government told us. By "early" I mean like in a matter of days. It wasn't a hard conclusion to make by normal nominally intelligent people let alone disease specialist or national security institutions worldwide who knew how bad it was very early. It wasn't any withholding of information (or thinking they weaponized it ) that did the damage, but was the piss poor response afterwords by some places (most notable among them the US) that really screwed things up as bad as they are.

Sure China is a brutal totalitarian regime, and sure I would trust them as far as I could throw my house, and sure there are probably things they are at fault for (inventing the virus probably not being one of them), but they actually handled their pandemic much better than most places. That's not a glowing endorsement of them. It's an indictment of how shamefully we handled things in the beginning. Other places even had more time to figure things out than them. Too many people just didn't give a damn about taking simple steps to slow the pandemic to get it back under control, and the world is paying for that now.

Trying to say otherwise is just revisionist history.

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

If it is true that the pandemic was blossoming in China as early as December It was utterly irresponsible of them to not inform other nations of existence.
The fact that it was at the earliest late February before warnings of any significant level were sounded in the west is proof that the Chinese were acting in bad faith.
To say otherwise is just foolish.
The fact that 10-15 million Chinese citizens were allowed to travel the globe with zero screening when the Chinese government had full knowledge of the pandemics existence smacks of a complete disregard of public safety.
Although after the fact the Trump Administration did next to zero to prevent infected people from other countries to enter the US.

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

Well standard procedure for any Dictatorship is to lie and cover up. Don't want to look bad. And Losing Face is still a Chinese and even Japanese cultural tradition. So while I don't think they invented the virus, I do think they stalled on full reporting of it to everyone in case they could control it. Human nature plus Culture.

 

[tvstrip]

Well standard procedure for any Dictatorship is to lie and cover up. Don't want to look bad. And Losing Face is still a Chinese and even Japanese cultural tradition. So while I don't think they invented the virus, I do think they stalled on full reporting of it to everyone in case they could control it. Human nature plus Culture.

That's a pretty good synopsis. I think it's a jump to say that they "invented" or "weaponized" it, but they did try to muzzle the doctor who first discovered it (and later died from it), so there's no question they dragged their heels. To be fair, so did pretty much every other country in the world even once word got out.

 

[gmase]

It was a false flag attack.

Let's assume China said: "Hey guys, we have this virus and it will be coming your way. It is deadly serious and you need to be on high alert and prepared."

What would we have done differently?

WHO
January 9: WHO Announces Mysterious Coronavirus-Related Pneumonia in Wuhan, China
https://www.ajmc.com/view/a-timeline-of-covid19-developments-in-2020

Big Loser:
Jan 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”
Jan 30: “We think we have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five — and those people are all recuperating successfully. But we’re working very closely with China and other countries, and we think it’s going to have a very good ending for us … that I can assure you.”

Even if China told the world, the world would have ignored it. We know it today and still ignore or downplay it. Like most tragedies, blame can be spread around. First and foremost, one must accept their own responsibility. We own our results.

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

^^^
We meaning the Trumpistas

 

[tvstrip]

U.S. report concluded COVID-19 may have leaked from Wuhan lab
https://www.reuters.com/world/china...-19-may-have-leaked-wuhan-lab-wsj-2021-06-07/

A report on the origins of COVID-19 by a U.S. government national laboratory concluded that the hypothesis of a virus leak from a Chinese lab in Wuhan is plausible and deserves further investigation

A still-classified U.S. intelligence report circulated during former President Donald Trump's administration alleged that three researchers at China's Wuhan Institute of Virology became so ill in November 2019 that they sought hospital care, U.S. government sources have said.

U.S. officials have accused China of not being transparent about the virus' origins, a charge Beijing has denied.

Separately, Mike Ryan, a top World Health Organization official said on Monday the WHO cannot compel China to divulge more data on COVID-19's origins, while adding it will propose studies needed to take understanding of where the virus emerged to the "next level".

Some interesting developments there. Makes you wonder what was in that classified Intel report.
If they do conclusively find the virus came from a Chinese lab, there's going to be a lot more questions and nasty fallout.

 

[mikexmoran]

The 60 Minutes interview with Peter Dasak from the WHO was pretty telling. They met with the Chinese scientists, with pre-approved questions, no source data was provided, and the WHO found the Chinese scientists to be believable.

What "scientist" does that on either side of the table? Forget about the Chinese, the WHO has lost quite a bit of credibility over that. What could be the motive for the WHO to conclude that?

 

[gmase]

A still-classified U.S. intelligence report circulated during former President Donald Trump's administration alleged that three researchers at China's Wuhan Institute of Virology became so ill in November 2019 that they sought hospital care, U.S. government sources have said.

Some interesting developments there. Makes you wonder what was in that classified Intel report.
If they do conclusively find the virus came from a Chinese lab, there's going to be a lot more questions and nasty fallout.

Makes you wonder why it was ignored by those with access to the report. If Trump knew and still did not act ... 🤔

Was it intentional or unintentional?

The WHO and China have little, if any, credibility.

 

[tvstrip]

Makes you wonder why it was ignored by those with access to the report. If Trump knew and still did not act ... 🤔

It really does make you wonder. Assuming the basis for the intel was solid, he would have had a legit reason to be critical of the regime, and even preempt himself from some of the fallout if in Nov-Feb he announced that China just released a deadly virus. The most popular US presidents were masters of fear mongering, and he would have had the perfect one served to him on a plate, in an election year. Not to mention his base would have eaten up the opportunity to blame another ethnicity for the world's troubles.

Instead, it sounds like he either didn't believe the reports or chose to ignore them, instead of taking advantage of it, which would totally been in character. That really makes me wonder.

And yeah, given what we've seen, it's clear that WHO/China have no credibility when it comes to this.

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

In the case of the virus origin back when the stories started coming out the problem for most of us is who do you believe? China which as a matter of course lies about anything and everything that doesn't make them appear to be perfect in every way or The Donald who has a reputation of also lying about everything.

 

[D-rock]

Applying the principle of Occam's Razor with the thought that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence I still don't remotely see enough evidence to back up any lab leak claims. All I've heard is that 1. A lab that handles viruses happens to be in the same city where it was first spotted (it being one of China and the world's largest cities where a lab being located makes sense because of it's size), and some unconfirmed reports that some lab workers went to hospital with flu like symptoms a little before the outbreak began (during normal flu season no less). That's not even remotely close to enough evidence to accuse a sovereign nation of intentionally creating and then intentionally or not releasing one of the worst modern pandemics in the world's history on the people of the world.

China's normal secrecy probably means we will never get the further investigation we want, and they act that secretive even when they are innocent. While I'm won't give full unconditional trust to the WHO or anybody for that matter, they still have best studied the subject and virus and concluded that it was unlikely from a lab and probably came from jumping species. If anybody has better proof of something else then absolutely need to show that. I'm willing to consider any relevant proof. Until then baring much better evidence coming out, the lab leak hypothesis is still close to bat shit crazy level conspiracy theory territory.

 

[gmase]

Until then baring much better evidence coming out, the lab leak hypothesis is still close to bat shit crazy level conspiracy theory territory.

"batshit crazy" is a good term here. You are correct, the simplest explanation is usually the best.

I disagree the leak theory is conspiratorial. No one is stating there is any proof, it is just a theory. Saying it was an intentional leak would be conspiratorial. Being accidental would just be step 1 of the sequence of errors which got us here. Ineptitude is always at the forefront of many tragedies.

We need to hold ourselves accountable before blaming China.

 

[tvstrip]

Fair enough, and like I indicated earlier in this thread, without proof I have doubts that this was weaponized or intentional. Previous epidemics were generally accepted as animal-borne (swine flu, bird flu, etc), so the default stance would be the same here.

I'm not convinced of the theory (none of the released information is even close to conclusive), but I find it interesting that we're now seeing a resurgence/interest in this lab stuff. And not from bat-shit crazy presidents and conspiracy theorists, but more grounded sources.

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

Remember this interview in January?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMGWLLDSA3c

 

[tvstrip]

Remember this interview in January?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMGWLLDSA3c

Isn't this is the guy that caught COVID after being vaccinated, and then criticized vaccinated people who continued to wear masks?
https://deadline.com/2021/06/bill-m...y-meghan-ufos-neil-degrasse-tyson-1234774149/

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

Isn't this is the guy that caught COVID after being vaccinated, and then criticized vaccinated people who continued to wear masks?
https://deadline.com/2021/06/bill-m...y-meghan-ufos-neil-degrasse-tyson-1234774149/

Yes, that's him. I listened to that show as well as the others and suggest you and everyone remember he is a Comedian and Satirist. I didn't get that take maybe you did but opinions vary. He did think that having to miss two weeks was silly if I remember right and I did not understand that part. I was referring to the interview taking the position that the Virus was from a lab back when almost no one thought so.

 

[tvstrip]

On that point, he & the guests actually make a coherent argument.
Especially the one that you need to be care who brings forward a theory, because society will prejudge it based on the mouthpiece before even actually hearing a word of it. Sort of like how we might dismiss a thread on a message board before even opening it, just based on the thread creator.

There are a lot of "coincidences" regarding the functionality of the virus, but at this point there's nothing saying that it was implausible from happening naturally.

I think most of us here see the nuance, but it should still be pointed out that there's a difference between accepting that the virus was created in/escaped from a lab and jumping to the conclusion it was done for nefarious/military purposes. Gain-of-function research is legit and is a big part of immunology research.

The problem is, even if wuhan created covid for gain-of-function research, china can't admit that now, since the entire world is going to sue them. I do believe that if that was in fact the case, they should have come clean in November and provided all the research they had on it, which would have sped up research exponentially. At least they could say they did everything to mitigate the damage. But again, that's assuming this whole scenario is true; something we don't know yet.

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

On that point, he & the guests actually make a coherent argument.
Especially the one that you need to be care who brings forward a theory, because society will prejudge it based on the mouthpiece before even actually hearing a word of it. Sort of like how we might dismiss a thread on a message board before even opening it, just based on the thread creator.

There are a lot of "coincidences" regarding the functionality of the virus, but at this point there's nothing saying that it was implausible from happening naturally.

I think most of us here see the nuance, but it should still be pointed out that there's a difference between accepting that the virus was created in/escaped from a lab and jumping to the conclusion it was done for nefarious/military purposes. Gain-of-function research is legit and is a big part of immunology research.

The problem is, even if wuhan created covid for gain-of-function research, china can't admit that now, since the entire world is going to sue them. I do believe that if that was in fact the case, they should have come clean in November and provided all the research they had on it, which would have sped up research exponentially. At least they could say they did everything to mitigate the damage. But again, that's assuming this whole scenario is true; something we don't know yet.

Good idea, except for the China coming clean part, never gonna happen in a dictatorship