Voter ID Laws Could Block Thousands From Voting

Mayhem

Banned
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/08/voter-id-laws_n_1657027.html

When Edward and Mary Weidenbener went to vote in Indiana's primary in May, they didn't realize that state law required them to bring government photo IDs such as a driver's license or passport.

The husband and wife, both approaching 90 years old, had to use a temporary ballot that would be verified later, even though they knew the people working the polling site that day. Unaware that Indiana law obligated them to follow up with the county election board, the Weidenbeners ultimately had their votes rejected – news to them until informed recently by an Associated Press reporter.

Edward Weidenbener, a World War II veteran who had voted for Mitt Romney in the Republican presidential contest, said he was surprised by the rules and the consequences.

"A lot of people don't have a photo ID. They'll be automatically disenfranchised," he said.

As more states put in place strict voter ID rules, an AP review of temporary ballots from Indiana and Georgia, which first adopted the most stringent standards, found that more than 1,200 such votes were tossed during the 2008 general election.

During sparsely attended primaries this year in Georgia, Indiana and Tennessee, the states implementing the toughest laws, hundreds more ballots were blocked.

The numbers suggest that the legitimate votes rejected by the laws are far more numerous than are the cases of fraud that advocates of the rules say they are trying to prevent. Thousands more votes could be in jeopardy for this November, when more states with larger populations are looking to have similar rules in place.

More than two dozen states have some form of ID requirement, and 11 of those passed new rules over the past two years largely at the urging of Republicans who say they want to prevent fraud.

Democrats and voting rights groups fear that ID laws could suppress votes among people who may not typically have a driver's license, and disproportionately affect the elderly, poor and minorities. While the number of votes is a small percentage of the overall total, they have the potential to sway a close election. Remember that the 2000 presidential race was decided by a 537-vote margin in Florida.




A Republican leader in Pennsylvania said recently that the state's new ID law would allow Romney to win the state over President Barack Obama.

Supporters of the laws cite anecdotal cases of fraud as a reason that states need to do more to secure elections, but fraud appears to be rare. As part of its effort to build support for voter ID laws, the Republican National Lawyers Association last year published a report that identified some 400 election fraud prosecutions over a decade across the entire country. That's not even one per state per year.

ID laws would not have prevented many of those cases because they involved vote-buying schemes in local elections or people who falsified voter registrations.

Election administrators and academics who monitor the issue said in-person fraud is rare because someone would have to impersonate a registered voter and risk arrest. A 2008 Supreme Court case drew detailed briefs from the federal government, 10 states and other groups that identified only nine potential impersonation cases over the span of several years, according to a tally by the Brennan Center at New York University.

Michael Thielen, executive director of the Republican lawyers group, said its survey was not comprehensive and he believes vote fraud is a serious problem.

"Most of it goes unreported and unprosecuted," he said.

Several election administrators, even those who support ID laws as a barrier to potential fraud, said the rejected ballots in their counties appeared to be legitimate voters who simply did not fulfill their ID obligations.

Donna Sharp, the administrator of elections in Hawkins County, Tenn., said she saw no signs of fraud. Of the seven people who cast absentee ballots, six didn't come in to confirm their identity. Sharp knew one of them personally.

But Sharp said she supports the ID law despite initial concerns. She said most people were aware of the requirement and able to provide their identification, and she thought the rules provided an extra layer of security.

"We want to protect those voters who do need their vote to count – the people who are doing things in an honest manner," Sharp said.

Some administrators speculated that voters who didn't return to verify their identity may have deduced that the ballot wouldn't alter the outcome of the election.

Indiana, Georgia and Tennessee require that voters provide a photo ID at the polls. Failing that, voters can use a temporary ballot that can be verified later, when they must meet with local elections administrators to sort out the matter.

Pennsylvania is putting a similar law in place for the November election. Kansas has comparable rules. Mississippi, South Carolina, Texas and Wisconsin are moving in that direction of having rules set for this year if they survive court challenges and federal approval.

Virginia had a rule allowing voters without proper ID to sign an identity statement; a false claim could make them subject to felony punishment. Under a new law awaiting final approval from the Justice Department, voters who do not bring proper ID, which doesn't necessarily have to have a photo, must use a temporary ballot and later provide ID to the local election board.

Georgia had 873 rejected temporary ballots due to ID from the 2008 general election while only about 300 ID temporary ballots were counted. The state also had 64 ID-related temporary ballots tossed in the presidential primary this year.

Indiana counties that maintained information from the 2008 election reported having hundreds of ballots tossed, and more than 100 more were rejected in the primary this year. The numbers can vary greatly depending on the election: Tippecanoe County, for example, had no ID-related temporary ballots excluded in the primary vote this year compared with 47 in the 2008 general election.

Tennessee had 154 blocked ballots in its March primary.

Keesha Gaskins, a senior counsel at the Brennan Center who has opposed voter ID laws, said she believes the numbers are significant and also underestimate the impact of voter ID laws. She said those numbers don't take into account people who were discouraged from showing up to vote in the first place or who may be turned away by poll workers. Even voters in states with less-strict ID laws may not get the proper explanation about how the process works without ID.

Beyond that, Gaskin said, rejecting even hundreds of ballots in an election is significant.

"These are still people who attempted to vote and who were unable to do so," Gaskins said. "When you compare that to the actual evidence of fraud, the difference is exponential."
 

StanScratch

My Penis Is Dancing!
Kind of amazing that Republicans are constantly trying to remind people that they are "for the people" - yet continually do stuff such as this, which takes the people out of the decision-making process.
 

bobjustbob

Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
It isn't that tough to get a state ID in NJ. It costs $24 and proof of stuff. Why not get one? You're going to need it to do things. That being said, all that is necessary to register is showing a utility bill with your name and address on it even if you don't have a SS#. Make sure this stuff is verified before you go to vote. That will take time. Once you are in the book that should be enough. Once your signature is in the book it is ready to verify for your next vote. Period. If someone else is going to use my name they better damned be sure to to do my signature. Otherwise jail.
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
I don't understand the fuss. Here in Germany, it is and has been a must to bring your ID card with you, of course with a photo on it.

Get into present tense, guys
 

Petra

Cult Mother and Simpering Cunt
I don't understand the fuss. Here in Germany, it is and has been a must to bring your ID card with you, of course with a photo on it.

Get into present tense, guys

Unlike in Europe where EVERYONE has to have identification, this isn't the case at all in the US. A person could potentially go through life without ever owning a state or federal ID because there's no law stating it's mandatory. So by making it mandatory to have a state or federal ID to vote means that a person can't execute their constitutional right to vote without buying an ID which isn't federally mandated.

That's the fuss. Personally I think it's stupid to allow people to vote without an ID, but, I can also see where people are coming from being pissed about this.
 

vodkazvictim

Why save the world, when you can rule it?
Ha!
I laugh at the state of american democracy! Here in England we have David Cameron as a freely elected Prime Minister (close family ties to British royalty, he is in fact nobiliy as well as a millionaire) who got the job afer forming a coalition with the freely elected prime minister (is there an echo in here?) known as Nick Clegg.

To date these freely elected Prime Ministers have not reneged on a single promise to the British people and have solidly represented the interests of the City.
British people of the City.

So yeah.... U of K! U of K! U of K! U of K! U of K! U of K! U of K! U of K!
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
Unlike in Europe where EVERYONE has to have identification, this isn't the case at all in the US. A person could potentially go through life without ever owning a state or federal ID because there's no law stating it's mandatory. So by making it mandatory to have a state or federal ID to vote means that a person can't execute their constitutional right to vote without buying an ID which isn't federally mandated.

That's the fuss. Personally I think it's stupid to allow people to vote without an ID, but, I can also see where people are coming from being pissed about this.

Like in the case of Arizona, where checking people's ID's for being legal citizens or not, this keeps me amazed.
 
I don't understand the fuss. Here in Germany, it is and has been a must to bring your ID card with you, of course with a photo on it.

Get into present tense, guys

As Petra commented, I can see where people would be upset about this, but its ridiculous. If I need a government ID to buy cigarettes and beer, why is it so much to ask for a photo ID as proof of identification to vote in national elections? Hell, I have to give out my SSN just to set up a goddamn water bill. All states offer ID cards, and the process, though it may take a few weeks, is not a difficult one. Voting, contrary to popular belief, is not a right, its a privilege. And if to maintain that privilege requires one to actually prove who they are - by simply producing one of the most common, easily obtained documents - I don't have a problem with that.
 

bobjustbob

Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
I did census a few years ago. The federal government mandates that we do this to count people in congressional districts. It has nothing to do with citizenship. Only where do you live. It cuts the states into districts. Counties and towns cut them up and share for their local stuff. Your name and address are protected in the census by a $10,000 fine and jail for any release of their information. Once you are counted into the population you are assigned a district to vote in. All you have to do is prove that you live there. Citizenship is just a check box but if you are shown to not be a citizen you go to jail.

Voting is a right of all citizrns. You don't need to have a photo ID, a SS#, or state identification number to be classified as a citizen. But somewhere in your history it can be proven. All citizens can provide this information and have the right to vote.
 

Petra

Cult Mother and Simpering Cunt
Like in the case of Arizona, where checking people's ID's for being legal citizens or not, this keeps me amazed.

Don't mistake yourself. US citizens DO NOT have to have ID. Everyone else has to have their ID on them. If a US citizen were checked in Arizona, they can't be arrested for not having any ID.

As Petra commented, I can see where people would be upset about this, but its ridiculous. If I need a government ID to buy cigarettes and beer, why is it so much to ask for a photo ID as proof of identification to vote in national elections? Hell, I have to give out my SSN just to set up a goddamn water bill. All states offer ID cards, and the process, though it may take a few weeks, is not a difficult one. Voting, contrary to popular belief, is not a right, its a privilege. And if to maintain that privilege requires one to actually prove who they are - by simply producing one of the most common, easily obtained documents - I don't have a problem with that.

I don't disagree that people should have to show ID to vote. I actually think not requiring an ID from birth (passport for example) is idiotic. But who am I?

As far as voting not being a right...no, it's not specifically stated in the constitution or bill of rights. HOWEVER, there are so many ways in those documents detailing how people can't be denied the right to vote, it can be argued that it is a right since the constitution uses "right" and not "privilage" over and over.

I have a feeling if the ID thing gets taken to the supreme court, THAT is where it'll be defined as a privilage or right.
 
Don't mistake yourself. US citizens DO NOT have to have ID. Everyone else has to have their ID on them. If a US citizen were checked in Arizona, they can't be arrested for not having any ID.



I don't disagree that people should have to show ID to vote. I actually think not requiring an ID from birth (passport for example) is idiotic. But who am I?

As far as voting not being a right...no, it's not specifically stated in the constitution or bill of rights. HOWEVER, there are so many ways in those documents detailing how people can't be denied the right to vote, it can be argued that it is a right since the constitution uses "right" and not "privilage" over and over.

I have a feeling if the ID thing gets taken to the supreme court, THAT is where it'll be defined as a privilage or right.

Yes, the Constitution does prohibit discrimination in granting the vote to people based on their sex, race or age (at least those individuals who are over 18) based on the protections of the 15th, 19th and 26th amendments. As well, the 24th amendment protects, essentially, income discrimination in the vote with the prohibition of poll taxes.

Having said that, referencing the Supreme Court case Alexander v Mineta in 2000, the SC made it clear that the Constitution does not protect the right of all citizens to vote, rather it only protects the right of all qualified citizens to vote, and the states are the entities solely responsible for deeming who is qualified. This ruling was an 8-1 decision. If the state requires a potential voter to complete certain forms, execute the voting ballot in a certain manner, or produce a form of government issued identification to qualify, they are, per the SC, justified in doing so, and may disqualify potential voters for not completing all requirements to the state's satisfaction. As long as the restrictions of qualification are not monetarily based, biased against gender, race, or age (kind of) then the constitutionality holds, for now at least.

Also, and I know some here will have opinions about this fact, but we saw this phenomenon play out in the 2004 Presidential election. In the Bush v Gore SC decision, the court stated that, since the President is elected, not by popular vote, but instead by electors, that the individual citizen has no right to vote for said electors, and the state may allocate their electoral votes as they see fit, with the individual vote holding no specific mandate as to whom the state should bestow its electoral votes upon, but rather as a guideline in the decision making process and allowing for disqualification of ballots at the state's discretion. Definitely contentious, yet ruled to be constitutional nonetheless.

Voting has always been a privilege be it by race/color (until 1870), gender (until 1920), class/income (until 1964), age (until 1971) and convicted felons who, even after serving their full prison sentence are still never able to vote again. Technically, the right to vote based on age is still discriminated against, and there are those that would argue that there are some 16 year-olds in this country that are far better equipped and capable of making an informed vote than 18+ year-olds, etc...
 

Ace Boobtoucher

Founder and Captain of the Douchepatrol
Unlike in Europe where EVERYONE has to have identification, this isn't the case at all in the US. A person could potentially go through life without ever owning a state or federal ID because there's no law stating it's mandatory. So by making it mandatory to have a state or federal ID to vote means that a person can't execute their constitutional right to vote without buying an ID which isn't federally mandated.

That's the fuss. Personally I think it's stupid to allow people to vote without an ID, but, I can also see where people are coming from being pissed about this.

If you're ever in Las Vegas you better bring an ID. If you win big at a casino you'll have to provide some ID for the tax paperwork. God help you if you don't have a license while driving anywhere in the States.

But I digress.
 

Petra

Cult Mother and Simpering Cunt
If you're ever in Las Vegas you better bring an ID. If you win big at a casino you'll have to provide some ID for the tax paperwork. God help you if you don't have a license while driving anywhere in the States.

But I digress.

Yes, you need ID to do lots of things in the US. However, if you aren't going to gamble, or you're not driving a car, there is absolutely no law stating you must be carrying a state or federal ID on your person at all times. When a baby is born in the US, the parents aren't obligated to get that baby a passport or state ID. You can literally go through life without having a state or federal ID at all. In this day and age it would be far from easy, but the possibility is there.

Think about it...when did you get your very first legally recognized ID? Probably when you got your drivers license. In other countries, kids have a passport or some sort of ID card because it's obligatory to have ID on you at all times. Even as a child.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
I think I might show up at the South Carolina primary in 2016, where I'll propose that there be a Constitutional Amendment that only White, male, landowners (20 acres+) above the age of 21 be allowed to vote or run for office in any election. I believe that they'll then lift me on their shoulders, carry me around the room and ask me where the hell a great man like me has been all their lives. :surprise: And when some yob from CNN or MSNBC asks me how I feel about slavery, I'll just coyly answer that I believe in states' rights. ;)

It's not that I don't believe that there needs to be some form of identifying eligible voters. But as has been the case with many of these measures, there have been a great many inconsistencies in who is asked for I.D. and when. I don't recall which state primary it was, but in one 2012 GOP primary contest, the voters were not asked for I.D. Yet in the general election in that state, there will be a new requirement that voters have state approved identification. If used as a method to intimidate or dissuade less savvy/more fearful voters (or those in certain demographic groups) from going to the polls, I do have a problem with that. And since many of the states doing this now are "red states", which have historically had issues with voting rights, one has to question why this is coming up this year and not before.

Voting is a right, not a privilege - driving is a privilege... though some on the far right now contend that voting is a privilege. So let's cut to the chase: free, White and 21. All others need to take a step back. :pacing:
 

Mayhem

Banned
Voter ID Law Support Linked To Attitudes About African Americans, Study Finds

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/19/voter-id-law-_n_1687267.html

A new study has found that support for voter ID laws, especially among those who lean Democratic, is linked to one's feelings toward African Americans.

In the study, conducted by the University of Delaware's Center for Political Communication, respondents were asked several questions, and their answers were used to create a spectrum of "racial resentment." The more resentment a person conveyed, the more likely they were to support voter ID laws.

Voter ID laws require people to show some form of government identification before they can cast a ballot. According to the National Conference of State Legislatures, 32 states have some form of voter ID law, with varying degrees of strictness. Since Republicans won control of 20 state governments in the 2010 midterms, at least 11 states have pushed through voter ID laws. Supporters of the laws say that they help prevent voter fraud, in spite of the fact that studies have shown electoral fraud to be exceedingly rare.

Black, Latino, low-income and younger voters are all less likely to have official government identification -- and are all also more likely to vote for Democrats.

"These findings suggest that Americans' attitudes about race play an important role in driving their views on voter ID laws," said Paul Brewer, one of the researchers who supervised the study.

Those who identified as Republicans or conservatives have the highest score on the measure of racial resentment. But self-identified Republicans and conservatives favor the laws regardless of where they fell on resentment matrix. It was those respondents who identified as Democrats and liberals whose stances were most likely to be informed by racial resentment.

"Who votes in America has always been controversial, so much so that the U.S. Constitution has been amended a number of times to protect voting eligibility and rights," said David Wilson, the study's other supervisor. "It comes as no surprise that Republicans support these laws more than Democrats. But what is surprising is the level at which Democrats and liberals also support the laws."

A report by the Brennan Center for Justice at the New York University School of Law found that up to 500,000 people in 10 states will face serious hurdles to vote this fall.

The study's publication comes just a week after U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder compared Texas's voter ID law to a poll tax, the Jim Crow-era practice meant to block or dissuade blacks from voting. Gov. Rick Perry (R) of Texas blasted the attorney general's comments, saying that they were an attempt to "incite racial tension."

Texas' voter ID law is the focus of a federal lawsuit filed by the Justice Department and civil rights groups that contends the policy disenfranchises voters. Lawyers on both sides made their closing arguments last Friday.

Last month, State Rep. Mike Turzai (R-Bradford Woods), the Pennsylvania House Majority Leader, said that the state's voter ID law would help win the state for Mitt Romney, the GOP's presumptive presidential nominee.
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
Yes, you need ID to do lots of things in the US. However, if you aren't going to gamble, or you're not driving a car, there is absolutely no law stating you must be carrying a state or federal ID on your person at all times. When a baby is born in the US, the parents aren't obligated to get that baby a passport or state ID. You can literally go through life without having a state or federal ID at all. In this day and age it would be far from easy, but the possibility is there.

Think about it...when did you get your very first legally recognized ID? Probably when you got your drivers license. In other countries, kids have a passport or some sort of ID card because it's obligatory to have ID on you at all times. Even as a child.

I still got my 'Kinderausweis' (Childs I.D.) from back in the day when it was updated at the age of 14. I am all for making that mandatory for every citizen. And it even is a good souvenir, when you get older.

Plus, how is a voting system to really work, when you can bullshit the vote like it happened when GWB got into office?
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Is there really a question as to whether voting is a right or a privilege?

AMENDMENT XV

Passed by Congress February 26, 1869. Ratified February 3, 1870.

Section 1.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Section 2.
The Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
 
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