Trump Says 14th Amendment is Unconstitutional

[Jagger69]

I personally have delighted in following Trump's campaign so far....and not solely because I see him as the inevitable demise of the GOP. He's brutally frank in expressing his views....I find that refreshing from the typical rhetoric that we hear from candidates in the primary season. Although I disagree with him on almost every issue, his disdain for the establishment and lack of need to pander to the billionaire power brokers makes him entertaining to hear and somewhat attractive in a weird kind of way for this serious social liberal. To see the other republican candidates automatically knee-jerk respond to damned-near everything he says is priceless. He's definitely brought a new aspect to the race for sure.

However, his recent statements about "anchor babies" and his opinion that the 14th amendment is "unconstitutional" is, by those very words, a dichotomy. How can a actual part of the constitution be "unconstitutional". Sometimes I wonder if he just makes these outrageous statement to see what the reaction will be. I mean, the guy is a classic narcissist if ever there was one so....:dunno:

Bizarre thing is that a number of his competitors chimed in to agree with him (Christie, Paul, Cruz). Amazing....the party that contends that they represent adherence to the constitution suddenly claims the document is unconstitutional.

Anyway, here's what he had to say on the issue. It really says a lot if Bill O'Reilly takes exception with his extreme position :eek::

Donald Trump is defending his controversial immigration plan, telling Fox News’ Bill O'Reilly that the 14th Amendment — which guarantees citizenship to all people “born or naturalized in the United States,” including children whose parents came to the country illegally — is unconstitutional.

“It’s not going to hold up in court,” Trump said on The Factor Tuesday.

On Sunday, the Republican frontrunner released his formal plan for immigration reform, calling for a wall across the southern border to be paid for by Mexico, the defunding of so-called sanctuary cities and the “mandatory return of all criminal aliens” to their home countries — including so-called birthright citizens protected by the 14th Amendment.

O’Reilly said Trump’s plan would mean “federal police kicking in the doors in barrios around the country dragging families out and putting them on a bus.”

“I don’t think they have American citizenship,“ the real estate mogul and former Celebrity Apprentice host replied. “We have to start a process where we take back our country. Our country is going to hell. We have to start a process, Bill, where we take back our country.”

O’Reilly asked Trump if he would seek to amend the amendment.

“It would take too long,” Trump said. “I’d much rather find out whether or not anchor babies are actually citizens because a lot of people don’t think they are.”

Trump’s plan was praised by ultraconservatives, including former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.

“The immigration plan of his — especially the wall, that’s common sense — it’s a real shot in the arm to constitutionalists and conservatives who want America to be put first,” Palin told Fox News’ Greta Van Susteren. “We’re rewarding those who would take illegal action. He wants to stop that and certainly send the message that America comes first.”

Tea Party co-founder Mark Meckler told the Associated Press that Trump’s “position on deportation generally reflects what likely voters think.”

But a Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll released in July found 64 percent of Americans support either a path to permanent legal status or citizenship for immigrants in the country illegally.

“We’re going to keep the families together, but they have to go,“ Trump said on NBC’s Meet the Press.

“What happens is, they’re in Mexico, they’re going to have a baby, they move over here for a couple of days, they have the baby,” Trump told O’Reilly. "When people are illegally in the country, they have to go.”

He added: "Now, the good ones — there are plenty of good ones — will work, so it’s expedited, we can expedite it where they come back in, but they come back legally.”

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/donald-trump-says-14th-amendment-is-127077752761.html

 

[Straight Shooter]

Congress passed legislation in the late 19th century and in 1923 extending citizenship to Native Americans. This is proof that Congress has the power to decide who is eligible for citizenship. Congress could pass legislation and it then get it signed by POTUS and it would be constitutional under the 14th Amendment

 

[Will E Worm]

 

[knowone]

He's a 'brutally frank" hustler, a snake oil salesman. I can't believe people are believing his BS.

 

[SabrinaDeep]

I think he refers to this:

No such amendment was ever legally ratified by three fourths of the States of the Union as required by the Constitution itself. Therefore it could be unconstitutional. Right or wrong that it would be to delete it, Trump didn't make an outrageous statement from a technical point of view.

Also, an unconstitutional constitution's amendment in general is very well possible for many reasons and it does not represent a dichotomy, just a paradox. Imagine, for example, the first amendment and then another amendment which contradicts the first Amendment.
If you make a simple search on Google you will find out that the issue is object of discussion for many constitutions all over the world.

 

[Supafly]

I just watched the segment from O'Reilly's show from yesterday. As you say, jagger, he is really blunt... and he goes in hard with topics and stances that make or break his further way. At least he is open about things, voters know what he is about.

I tthink he will crash and burn if he really gets voted for as the republican candidate. I just don't see the Washington Mafia letting him pass.

 

[Jagger69]

I think he refers to this:

No such amendment was ever legally ratified by three fourths of the States of the Union as required by the Constitution itself. Therefore it could be unconstitutional. Right or wrong that it would be to delete it, Trump didn't make an outrageous statement from a technical point of view.

Also, an unconstitutional constitution's amendment in general is very well possible for many reasons and it does not represent a dichotomy, just a paradox. Imagine, for example, the first amendment and then another amendment which contradicts the first Amendment.
If you make a simple search on Google you will find out that the issue is object of discussion for many constitutions all over the world.

The fact that there was tremendous vacillating by many states who originally did not ratify it (including former states of the Confederacy that had yet to be readmitted to the union) and vociferous opposition by President Johnson is what has created such controversy as to its ratification veracity. The truth is, it was eventually ratified by 28 of 37 states....a 3/4 majority. Additionally, any amendment (including the first amendment) can be rescinded by the ratification of another amendment. The classic example in history is the 21st amendment that rescinded the 18th amendment. Thanks for the "simple search on Google" advice Sabrina but the fact that there is a great deal of disagreement over an issue that has long been decided from a legal standpoint (the amendment has been an integral part of many SCOTUS decisions in the years since and is unquestionably considered to be a part of the US constitution by the judiciary) proves nothing (i.e. gay marriage, abortion) other than the subject is a controversial and, quite often, contrived one at that. Do a simple Google search on "chemtrails" and you'll see what I mean.

If Trump wants to get rid of the 14th amendment, he'll have to spearhead an effort to introduce and ratify another amendment to do it.

 

[SabrinaDeep]

I wasn't try to prove anything, but merely suggesting the reason (right or wrong) why Trump played the unconstitutional card for the 14th amendment and pointing out that parts of any constitutions can indeed be unconstitutional. I'm not interested in US politics, but just in their foreign politics.

 

[Jagger69]

I wasn't try to prove anything, but merely suggesting the reason (right or wrong) why Trump played the unconstitutional card for the 14th amendment and pointing out that parts of any constitutions can indeed be unconstitutional. I'm not interested in US politics, but just in their foreign politics.

Oh I don't think there's any doubt that you are correct in surmising what his reasoning is. He basically stated as such on TV last night. If he wants to spend a shitload of his money on a legal challenge of the amendment I'm sure there are plenty of lawyers who would gladly take up his cause. The problem is, the 14th amendment has never been ruled to be unconstitutional and has been used to establish legal precedent in numerous cases over the years. It's going to take a constitutional amendment to rescind it and I think the chances of that happening are extremely slight to say the least.

That said, I do concur that the "anchor baby" issue is problematic as an abuse of the 14th amendment but only because our borders have been so porous. Consequently, focusing on "anchor babies" as the issue is effectively treating a symptom and not the disease in my estimation.

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

Trump's understanding or lack thereof is probably better than the HuffPost's. Their writer's believe trying to amend the constitution is unconstitutional.

http://twitchy.com/2015/08/20/publi...twfbp&utm_medium=fbpage&utm_campaign=twupdate

 

[sean miguel]

The Constitution is unconstitutional.





my Will E Worm imitation

 

[Jagger69]

Trump's understanding or lack thereof is probably better than the HuffPost's. Their writer's believe trying to amend the constitution is unconstitutional.

http://twitchy.com/2015/08/20/publi...twfbp&utm_medium=fbpage&utm_campaign=twupdate

Amusing but the main difference in relevance is that Cristian Farias isn't running for president and the Donald is. A lot of the stuff that he's beating his fist about now is designed to appeal to the extreme right-wing faction of the party. It will be interesting to see how his rants evolve into actual policy stances if and when he begins attracting more mainstream voters. Anger, although something many Americans can certainly understand and feel, isn't a policy. I'm waiting to hear Trump's stance on health care. Historically, he has favored a single-payer universal system for all Americans....socialism, no? Sit tight....this is fun to watch.

 

[Will E Worm]

The Constitution is unconstitutional.





my Will E Worm imitation

:tongue:

 

[D-rock]

Historically, he has favored a single-payer universal system for all Americans....socialism, no? Sit tight....this is fun to watch.

Actually, he's already abandoned that with a some things are different now bla bla yada yada yada nonsense added int to try and explain it. (Trump never really elaborates or goes into much detail on any of his policies I have seem to noticed.) Considering the party he's running for I can't say that's shocking. He also once wanted a massive tax increase/wealth redistribution on the richest Americans to help pay off the debt...that to he has conveniently abandoned with just about the same explanation. It's amazing how he has changed his mind since statements he made in the past when it's convenient for him. If he was a democrat there would be no end to the chorus of people endlessly spouting about how he's a "flip flopper".

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

Evil, racist asshole Harry Reid, "NO SANE Country Would Have BIRTHRIGHT Citizenship!"

 

[DP_LOVER]

how this clown is even considered as a legitimate candidate for the republican party astounds me. I mean Jesus the republicans have always been backwards, but this guy makes them look almost normal

- - - Updated - - -

how this clown is even considered as a legitimate candidate for the republican party astounds me. I mean Jesus the republicans have always been backwards, but this guy makes them look almost normal

 

[ApolloBalboa]

I'm currently watching Show Me a Hero, and Alfred Molina's character is like a 80s, Yonkers councilman Trump.

 

[Straight Shooter]

The constitution is unconstituitonal