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Tara Conner Criticized for Underaged Drinking - Too Harsh IMO

I'm one of those people that thinks she agreed to be held to a higher standard than the average person when she entered it. I don't care about a beauty pageant so it isn't a big deal to me, but I can't blame them for going after her when she did what she wasn't supposed to do. I also had a feeling they wouldn't take her crown away.

quite right...the others are missing the point that this chick signed up to eat white bread and drink milk in exchange for the crown....she is the one who did not live up to her end of the bargain

I am quite disappointed in Trump for excusing her....what message does this send out to the youth of America? That they can fuck things up and get away with it?
 

Torre82

Moderator \ Jannie
Staff member
quite right...the others are missing the point that this chick signed up to eat white bread and drink milk in exchange for the crown....she is the one who did not live up to her end of the bargain

I am quite disappointed in Trump for excusing her....what message does this send out to the youth of America? That they can fuck things up and get away with it?

If you think this sends any message, I weep for your children.
 
If you think this sends any message, I weep for your children.

what does that mean?

It sends a general message to the youth of America that it's ok to renege on a promise, that there are no repercussions for their actions.

If that's how you want to raise your children, I weep for yours.
 

dave_rhino

Closed Account
I'm with Torre, this doesn't send a message at all...

Things like this happen all the time, people getting in trouble for underage drinking, and do the kids learn from others mistakes? No.

= No Message Sent.
 
Dave and Torre, believe me your rep box should have new deposits but apparently I need to "spread it around" first.

If we're relying on our children to learn from Donald Trump and a 20 year old popularity contest winner then I weep not only from our children but our education system and parenting skills as well. Message...pffffft.
 
I agree that there may not be much message in this about whether drinking is right or wrong. To me this is all about honoring an agreement. If you think that it's stupid to not drink and behave like many other young people do in public, then you'd be pretty dumb yourself to agree to it anyway. Trump has every right to warn or punish her for how she has behaved, if she had agreed to such terms.

If there's anything to learn from this, it's IMO that you should honor an agreement. If you don't like the responsibilities that come with the title, then don't join the contest.
 
I'm with Torre, this doesn't send a message at all...

Things like this happen all the time, people getting in trouble for underage drinking, and do the kids learn from others mistakes? No.

= No Message Sent.

so I guess we just turn away and pretend it didn't happen?

Your kids may use this as an excuse to say, "They let off Miss USA for underage drinking, etc. why are you coming down on me?"

Keep in mind that I am talking about this particular case. This girl has reaped all the benefits from the Miss USA title and has done nothing but brought shame to the event and violated her end of the bargain.

It is just a goofy beauty contest but it pisses me off when things like this happen. People make an agreement and don't stick to it. Then when they violate the terms of the agreement, they look at you like you have 3 heads when they are called out on the carpet.

You cannot tell me that this girl wasn't warned about her partying before this was all made public. Apparantly, she didn't give a shit until someone pulled her choke chain and threatened to take it all away from her. Now, Miss USA is going to rehab. Geez, how proud we must be.
 
Dave and Torre, believe me your rep box should have new deposits but apparently I need to "spread it around" first.

If we're relying on our children to learn from Donald Trump and a 20 year old popularity contest winner then I weep not only from our children but our education system and parenting skills as well. Message...pffffft.

I weep for our parenting skills and our eduaction system as well. With this circus you have a direct result of how both have gone right into the toilet and the US is made into a laughing stock in the world's eyes.
 
Well alot of the world is Europe, where alot of countries have a much more relaxed view of sex and a drinking age of 18 or even under. So if the US, as you say, is a laughing stock in the world's eyes then it is certainly not because of the actions of "Miss USA". If the US is a laughing stock, then it could be because of our bumbling in Iraq, rampant censorship, our overload prisons full of people serving ridiculously long sentences for drug use, and our horribly uptight views on sexuality.

AND...a girl like this is a dream come true for any college student (male OR female) so she certainly IS NOT a sign of the failed education system. Perhaps a string of failed businesses and the erosion of the foundation of the world's most powerful country, DESPITE a YALE education IS a sing of a failed education system. So, in those terms: George W. Bush = BAD, Miss USA doing a little blow and licking pussy = GOOD
 
Well alot of the world is Europe, where alot of countries have a much more relaxed view of sex and a drinking age of 18 or even under. So if the US, as you say, is a laughing stock in the world's eyes then it is certainly not because of the actions of "Miss USA". If the US is a laughing stock, then it could be because of our bumbling in Iraq, rampant censorship, our overload prisons full of people serving ridiculously long sentences for drug use, and our horribly uptight views on sexuality.

AND...a girl like this is a dream come true for any college student (male OR female) so she certainly IS NOT a sign of the failed education system. Perhaps a string of failed businesses and the erosion of the foundation of the world's most powerful country, DESPITE a YALE education IS a sing of a failed education system. So, in those terms: George W. Bush = BAD, Miss USA doing a little blow and licking pussy = GOOD

But as trivial as this case may be it just adds fuel to the fire.

Please do not miss my point: She fucked up. She was told NOT to do something and she did it anyway. It sends the wrong message out there that there are no repercussions for our actions.
 

Torre82

Moderator \ Jannie
Staff member
dangerousD;1110228 1: said:
I weep for our parenting skills and our eduaction system as well. With this circus you have a direct result of how both have gone right into the toilet and the US is made into a laughing stock in the world's eyes.

2: so I guess we just turn away and pretend it didn't happen?

Your kids may use this as an excuse to say, "They let off Miss USA for underage drinking, etc. why are you coming down on me?"

Keep in mind that I am talking about this particular case. This girl has reaped all the benefits from the Miss USA title and has done nothing but brought shame to the event and violated her end of the bargain.

3: It is just a goofy beauty contest but it pisses me off when things like this happen. People make an agreement and don't stick to it. Then when they violate the terms of the agreement, they look at you like you have 3 heads when they are called out on the carpet.

You cannot tell me that this girl wasn't warned about her partying before this was all made public. Apparantly, she didn't give a shit until someone pulled her choke chain and threatened to take it all away from her. Now, Miss USA is going to rehab. Geez, how proud we must be.

Dangit, I hate a point-for-point debate. But here goes.

1: The education system needs a definite overhaul. No disagreement, there. Year round schooling and more interactive teaching. Reading from a book and watching somebody chalk on a board = bullsh!te. Also, most of the curriculum follows along the usual lines of *Remember it for a month, write it on a test, forget it.* Prerequisites among colleges are also utter nonsense. There are barely a blips worth of jobs that require algebra or history. If you're going to teach people, then teach people. We're not going to remember most of it even if we DO use it.

2: If my kids wanted to drink underage I'd recommend against it for the right reasons (stunting growth, making schoolwork that much more difficult with a hangover and so forth) but honestly I'd promote drinking or sex at the homestead with whoever you're with. Forgive this small trespass against the status quo.. but you can either repress and deny reality like white christian America or you can embrace it and offer them the safety of their own home. You wanna drink at 16? You work up the money. You have no friends over during it. You dont leave your room during it. Honestly, denying booze and sex to teenagers is just torture. They're going thru the worst times of their lives and the world is screaming NO! YOU DONT HAVE ANY RIGHTS! They cant drive anywhere, they dont have much money.. they can either go behind their parents backs and do it out in-the-world, unsafely.. or you can show them they aint missing all that much. Most of it tastes like ass, dries you up like the extreme diuretic it is.. and will probably give you a headache when you're new to it.

To answer the question exactly: Why am I coming down on my own kids? Because Miss teen usa world whatever her ass isnt family. If you dont know how to answer your own kid's question or if they're allowed to fire off sarcastic remarks.. brother, that shines on YOUR parenting skill, not them. Grow some parenting balls!

3: She signed up under irrational demands. Same as celibacy for a priest, or the "We-own-your-ass" military agreement when you join up. You dont know what you have until it's gone. Sheesh, you cant sign away your own HUMANITY! People need to take a break. Bust out of their grind. Young girls will be young girls.

IN OTHER WORDS.. theyll do exactly what millions of young girls before her have done: Stupid sh!t. Major difference here is that the public eye is on THIS girl. Drugs. Pregnancy. Drinking. If this sends a message, it is because you as a parent LET IT DO SO. If a kid is so hard-up to find an excuse to be stupid, the parent is doing their job.

Dude, honestly.. how can you even argue this point? This is like looking at research in drug use among teenagers and blaming a 0.2% difference on Lindsay Lohan. STOP looking for a scapegoat. Blame the parent, blame the kid. NOONE ELSE ENTERS THAT EQUATION IF YOU DID YOUR PARENTING JOB RIGHT! It aint the dick she's riding, the drug dealer she got it from, or the owner of the strip club she danced a pole at.

:southern lawyer accent:
I rest my case.
 

dave_rhino

Closed Account
so I guess we just turn away and pretend it didn't happen?

No, i didn't say she shouldn't be punished. If they did it just because she broke the law, then fair enough.

But if they did it to promote a message to underage drinkers then they have failed... The government will always fail when it comes to this...
 
Torre82min:

Without getting into it, I agree on your rant. Parents need to be parents and teach their kids.

But let's keep our eye on the ball here. This is not about our personal views on underage drinking, snorting a little coke or licking pussy.

Miss USA has been publicized for underaged drinking and drug use. She is going into rehab. She has violated her legal agreement that she made to uphold the "image" of Miss USA (however hokey that might be).

She has brought shame to the title and has embarrased her country. She should be stripped of her title as Vanessa Williams was in the 80's when her nude pics surfaced.
 
No, i didn't say she shouldn't be punished. If they did it just because she broke the law, then fair enough.

But if they did it to promote a message to underage drinkers then they have failed... The government will always fail when it comes to this...

I agree with you here. It is the job of the parents to promote that message.
 

Torre82

Moderator \ Jannie
Staff member
Any image that miss USA holds is purely a fiction, the same as Maury Povich trying to be a journalist. Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.

Stripping her of the title? That could only do wonders for her publicity. Taking away a miss USA title is about as much punishment as Andrew Dice Clay being banned from MTV. :shrug: Slap on the wrist and she's in more news stories than she'd ever be after winning a stupid contest. Hell, if anything.. her behavior shows her as being more HUMAN! This should be likened to Sandra Bullock in Miss Congeniality. The ones who adhere to the rules? Boring. Soulless, almost. How can you lose a title if you have no life to begin with?
 
Any image that miss USA holds is purely a fiction, the same as Maury Povich trying to be a journalist. Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.

Stripping her of the title? That could only do wonders for her publicity. Taking away a miss USA title is about as much punishment as Andrew Dice Clay being banned from MTV. :shrug: Slap on the wrist and she's in more news stories than she'd ever be after winning a stupid contest. Hell, if anything.. her behavior shows her as being more HUMAN! This should be likened to Sandra Bullock in Miss Congeniality. The ones who adhere to the rules? Boring. Soulless, almost. How can you lose a title if you have no life to begin with?

all too true...but as silly as it may seem the title still holds an image of being pure and wholesome, regardless of what you or I think of it...and the winners have to follow the guidelines set by the company or committee on being their titleholder....same goes for American Idol winners, Nike spokespeople, etc....

look at Kobe Bryant and all the advertisers who dropped him after his rape case...

I agree with you...she should have stepped down and started to hang out with Paris, Britney and Lindsay and made more money posing for Playboy and having her own reality show...
 

Torre82

Moderator \ Jannie
Staff member
Summarized.

Brother.. I dont think you truly understand what I just said. Its a facade. Its fake. There is no image. Does anybody here think of them as being wholesome? To get to that point, especially.. pageant and Miss *whoever* titlists are notorious for having nude photos.. sex tapes..unhealthy habits.. etcetera. That is the reality that, I guess.. you're denying? Are you, in essence upholding a false image? Thats.. counterproductive. Contraindicated. Ill-advised. Dare I say, without offense.. stupid? There are people who get paid.. to look at girls and judge them upon their lies. The contestants get gifts. The winner gets money and a crown. Those facts already push the rationalizing of such an event to its limit. But then somebody exhibits anything but the lies.. the false image.. and they're threatened with taking away a false status symbol? They debate, notify every news service and call in a rich-ass Donald Trump on the matter? When does the pain stop?

Kobe Bryant.. is a basketball player. They have few expectations. Hell, lots of athletes are on performance-enhancing drugs noone's even heard of, yet! He'd still be playing basketball whether he was guilty or not! He probably got two book deals and free publicity out the wazoo for it!

Now.. the title means NOTHING! The punishment means nothing. Arguing over whether it is right or not.. even if it was our choice.. means positively zero.

Its ... its NORAD tracking Santa. Its aliens abducting bigfoot. Its a frickin' Rube Goldberg machine of your mind! You're arguing semantics in a dead language, here!
 
Whether the title or the image means anything, is IMO pretty irrelevant. If you don't believe in the image, then there is no reason in agreeing to uphold that image. That's why I don't feel sorry for her at all. She shouldn't accept the title and agree to the conditions, if she thought so little of them that she didn't care to follow them. To me this is all about not honoring an agreement. The title, the "fake" image, whatever people may say, don't mean anything to me in regards to this argument. If you accept the responsibility of upholding the image, however fake it may be, then you should do so. Simple as that.
 

Torre82

Moderator \ Jannie
Staff member
Whether the title or the image means anything, is IMO pretty irrelevant. If you don't believe in the image, then there is no reason in agreeing to uphold that image. That's why I don't feel sorry for her at all. She shouldn't accept the title and agree to the conditions, if she thought so little of them that she didn't care to follow them. To me this is all about not honoring an agreement. The title, the "fake" image, whatever people may say, don't mean anything to me in regards to this argument. If you accept the responsibility of upholding the image, however fake it may be, then you should do so. Simple as that.

There is professionalism.. and then there's being miss USA.

There is acting the part.. and then there's offtime from that part. Ya know? A day off? A week vacation? Where you do what you want and it is considered PRIVATE?!

There was a story about a teacher who posed nude on Flickr for some artsy fartsy photos. (Her last name was Hoover, as I recall) Anyway, she was fired and I believe her teaching license might have been revoked.. and battlelines were drawn. Do photos of somebody in some far off corner of the net have any bearing upon the job you do?

Would you refuse Wifey's request to live in a certain neighborhood because she rides dick for a living? (Her own hubby, at that!)

Would you like to lose your job because of a blog you posted about work, or because a coworker found a nudie pic or a porn movie in your household?

The issue I think that's important is where to draw the line: Did she show up to the Miss USA pageant with cum sluicing down her legs and blow in her nose? No? Then she worked for it and won. Done deal.
 
I don't think that those other examples are about the same thing. If she had agreed to uphold the image of Miss USA, even in her private time and when on holidays and so on, then she should do it. If she hadn't agreed to such, then I'd agree that her private life is pretty much her own business. The issue to me is whether she agreed to it or not. Did it come with the title to behave in certain ways all the time, to uphold the image etc. If she agreed to that, however it would change her personal life, then I think that she should honor that agreement.
 
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