Suspect in Nazi trial proud of his SS service

meesterperfect

Hiliary 2020
Nicely said D-Rock. :hatsoff:

and completely meaningless because it has nothing to do with anything regarding this case.
it wasnt satan, it was the german military.
so should we kill him D, you know because he was a (shhh! you must whisper the next word) nazi
wwii europe happened, and if you want to believe it happened just because a crazy man (aka satan) wanted to kill jews then thats great, ignorance is bliss, but theres a little more to it than that.

thats the thing about talking wwii with people, nobody knows the facts so they come up with little sentences that they think appears to sum it up.
 

habo9

Banned
From what Ive read MrP is the only one making any sense on this thread , its seems to me that most people are shouting about what they think its right to say & totally missing the point

From what I read the guy was proud to be accepted into the SS , so I take it this would be before any killings he had done
If I had been accepted into the SAS I would be pround , if I went on to kill innocent people I would not be so proud

Also in wars you follow orders & back in those days you were killed for not following orders
We dont know the circumstances surrounding these murders or whether they were just stone cold murder on innocents


So the name of this thread is nothing to do with the topic and just there to stir up a reaction

To which most of yz are



And the Iraq , George Bush things is kind of similar
I dont think allied soldiers should be up for war crimes , I think GB and Blair should be as they give out the orders they took us to a war under false pretences

So here the Nazis are the Allies

If he has just done it because he could then yes he should be up for war crimes , same as any Allied soldier in Iraq who has killed outwith orders or killing outwith orders in any war
 
I'm not gonna get into this too deep. Just a couple of things.

First of all it would be nice, if we'd stop with the black and white. Some people in the NSDAP had their reasons for joining the party, some didn't. And not everyone in the Wehrmacht, Gestapo, SS etc. was a "Nazi". There were a lot of members of the Wehrmacht that were decidedly against the "Nazis". Stop with the uneducated, "inflationary" use of the word Nazi for everyone in the German military or everything German.
The name Mengele was tossed into the mix earlier. He is a prime example of a scientist and physician who had hardly any interest in the NSDAP and the SS. He joined both organizations, because they paid for his education and his later studies and they let him conduct his ethically very questionable and doubtful research. Without that we today probably wouldn't know who Josef Mengele was. Without his education, his work at the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Institut and in Oświęcim (Auschwitz), little Josef Mengele from Günzburg would probably never have become the "Angel of Death". Besides all that, he probably never was a real Nazi.
But there are some things one should consider. Joining the NSDAP meant joining a party that propagated genocide. Joining the SS meant joining a paramilitary organization, that carried out direct party and Führer orders behind the front lines as well as inside the whole territory occupied by the Third Reich, which meant hunting dissenters, fighting the guerrilla and the resistance, ethnic cleansing, genocide, deportation etc. So, even if it was an elite organization (which wasn't that elite at the end except from the Totenkopf division) and even if they paid for ones education etc., being in the SS meant being in an organization whose purpose often had little to do with the war itself. Most of the time, to the SS the war was just a smoke-screen that cloaked racial profiling, segregation, deportation, scorched earth and murder like clockwork.
I'm sure there are also a lot of al-Qaida members, who just wanted to help their families, stand up for their religion or country or anything like that and who never even took a shot at an American. Still, if you admit to being a member of al-Qaida, you probably go to prison in the US for a long time. Considering that, I'd probably prefer being a Nazi, because that means I probably wouldn't get tortured in a US prison or something like that.
That said, one can't judge someone (legally and morally) solely by his actions. One has to consider the circumstances under and the times in which the action took place. But there are still moral and ethic standards in a democracy. Arguing everything with the point "it was war" is not a fit argument for a democratic assessment and judgement of a taken action, even if it happened in the past. He killed and was member of an organization that specialized in killing, whether it was legally always murder or not is another point, it's in these cases often the intention that counts.
 

Ace Bandage

The one and only.
and completely meaningless because it has nothing to do with anything regarding this case.
it wasnt satan, it was the german military.
so should we kill him D, you know because he was a (shhh! you must whisper the next word) nazi
wwii europe happened, and if you want to believe it happened just because a crazy man (aka satan) wanted to kill jews then thats great, ignorance is bliss, but theres a little more to it than that.

thats the thing about talking wwii with people, nobody knows the facts so they come up with little sentences that they think appears to sum it up.

Please enlighten us all as to the causes of WWII. Because it seems to me, and most historians, rational people, and those of us who haven't been institutionalized, that Hitler invaded Poland seeking lebensraum after promising not to do so following the Munich agreement. During this conflict and subsequent invasion of Europe, he implemented the "Final Solution" recommended by Himmler that called for the systematic genocide of the Jewish race.

Do you have a different theory or revisionist history to share? Holocaust denial, perhaps? Please tell me you're one of those people. You don't have any credibility to begin with, but that would be the icing on the cake.
 

meesterperfect

Hiliary 2020
Please enlighten us all as to the causes of WWII. Because it seems to me, and most historians, rational people, and those of us who haven't been institutionalized, that Hitler invaded Poland seeking lebensraum after promising not to do so following the Munich agreement. During this conflict and subsequent invasion of Europe, he implemented the "Final Solution" recommended by Himmler that called for the systematic genocide of the Jewish race.

wrong. youre wrong. it didnt go down like that at all.
it went back to world war 1,, even before and 2 sentences do not sum it up.
I've researched it extensivelly from all angles for years and have come to the conclusion alot of it that has been taught is just false or at best twisted,, but
I dont have time to be your history teacher right now, maybe later.
besides anything i show you regarding that era you will just deny and say is wrong so why should i bother.




Do you have a different theory or revisionist history to share? Holocaust denial, perhaps? Please tell me you're one of those people. You don't have any credibility to begin with, but that would be the icing on the cake.


What exactly is revisionist history? who revises it? the losers or the winners?
and how do we know which is revised and which isn't unless we really research it?
Holocaust? I know you asked me just to try to set me up but ok.....Hmm, why is it that if anybody questions the holocaust, its circumstances, or the numbers (6 million) they are automatically called a racist, anti semitic, anti jewish when they just want to know the real circumstances and the truth?
why is that?

whatever, your minds closed so i wont waste anymore time.
So back to this 88 year old man, should we just lock him up, maybe kill him, or give him a fair trial without letting emotion or hatred influence it, which is all I wanted before I was jumped on in this thread
 
Holocaust? Hmm, why is it that if anybody questions the holocaust, its circumstances, or the numbers (6 million) they are automatically called a racist, anti semitic, anti jewish when they just want to know the real circumstances and the truth?

It's because most of those who question the validity of what happened during the holocaust - for the most part - have certain biases that make them more prone to doing so. Think about all of the well known holocaust deniers, they all have something in common, don't they?

But haven't we already gone over the numbers of dead during this time period on more than one occasion now? The records of their actions have been found, eye witness testimony by those in the camps and by those working there, millions of people disappearing without a trace have all led to the conclusion that is accepted by experts and the vast majority that 6 million Jews and up to 5 million "others" were all killed.
 

meesterperfect

Hiliary 2020
It's because most of those who question the validity of what happened during the holocaust - for the most part - have certain biases that make them more prone to doing so. Think about all of the well known holocaust deniers, they all have something in common, don't they?

But haven't we already gone over the numbers of dead during this time period on more than one occasion now? The records of their actions have been found, eye witness testimony by those in the camps and by those working there, millions of people disappearing without a trace have all led to the conclusion that is accepted by experts and the vast majority that 6 million Jews and up to 5 million "others" were all killed.

Ok they all have something in common, they are anti jewish, thank you for being honest.
And 6 million it is.
I dont want to get into a debate about it, I just want people to snap out of it and re-acting to the word nazi like pavlovian dogs.
everybody has the right to fair trial,evidence presented, facts and circumstances considered if we were talking about guantanamo prisoners most would agree, but were talking about nazis so that changes the rules.
 
wrong. youre wrong. it didnt go down like that at all.
it went back to world war 1,, even before and 2 sentences do not sum it up.
I've researched it extensivelly from all angles for years and have come to the conclusion alot of it that has been taught is just false or at best twisted,, but
I dont have time to be your history teacher right now, maybe later.
besides anything i show you regarding that era you will just deny and say is wrong so why should i bother.

No entirely true.... It all started a century before that.... (Napoleon - Prussia & later Bismarck - France)
 

PlasmaTwa2

The Second-Hottest Man in my Mother's Basement
When you are not even an US-American, why come you defend their policy? Feel sympathetic to a country that uses their armed forces and their foreign intelligence agencies to still act as a colonial bully?

Oh, did I come to defend their policy? Hmm, no where did I say that I did that. I came to make fun of your vague and illogical claim that the Iraq War is simply happening because they wanted to commit a war crime.

Shucks, looks like you made that up. flylicker

And by the way, when I responded to you my location was "The Great White North". I can't help it if you don't know that means Canada.
 
And by the way, when I responded to you my location was "The Great White North". I can't help it if you don't know that means Canada.
Dude, I don't think you're being very fair here. How many things like that do you know about Germany? Probably not many. Would you have known, without googleing it now, who Michel is? Or what and where Elbflorenz (Florence of the Elbe) is? Or what "das Volk der Dicher und Denker" ("the nation of poets and philosophers/thinkers") means?
Why should someone from Germany know, that Canada calls herself (itself?) "The Great White North"? If I wouldn't know that already and someone would use the term "Great White North", I'd assume they're probably talking about Norway or Finland. ;)

Concerning the discussion about history:
As I don't want to bore anyone with scientific discussions and historiography here, I'll make it short and very simple. After the fact, there are hypothesis' and theories developed by historian as to why or how something happened. It's called revisionism amongst historians, when a new theory finds a movement that aims to radically change or even overthrow the until then commonly accepted theorem/theory. This happens for different reasons. For example when considerable prove or even consent exists, that the orthodox theory is based on faulty, incomplete or biased knowledge or that it was reached by questionable conclusions or that it's research was founded on inadequate questions and so on. There is at least one "Historikerstreit" (historians' dispute) every ten to twenty years. Most of them are not realized by the broader public, or are at least not discussed publicly in a proper way. In the 1960s there was the Fischer-controversy about the so called "Kriegsschuldfrage" (whose fault was WWI), in the 1990s there was the "Goldhagen-Debatte" (Goldhagen dispute) about the question of guilt (for example whether all German civilians were Nazis and every single one was responsible for the Holocaust) or the "Cold War revisionist controversy" or "bomb controversy" which simmered since the 1970s and exploded in the 1990s (which surrounds mainly around the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan). Revisionist history can have solid points and even overcome the orthodox historical theorem. One famous example is the "bomb controversy", where orthodox historians are running out of arguments and some (especially American historians) only argue with political beliefs and not scientific facts, whereas most revisionist or neutral historians clearly have the better theories.
I would be very very cautious about aligning myself with holocaust revisionists though. Some amongst those even claim, that there were no crematoriums or Vernichtungslager ("extermination camps").
 

meesterperfect

Hiliary 2020
wow, that post above says alot.
you get your info from a hollywood movie with bradd pitt as your historical reference?
a ridiculous historically inaccurate movie both badly made and badly acted.
I take it as a bad comedy.
but millions have paid to see it
anyway, nice to see youre getting your info from an unbiased source.
talk about revisionist history, youve actually helped prove some of what i posted.
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
wow, that post above says alot.
you get your info from a hollywood movie with bradd pitt as your historical reference?
a ridiculous historically inaccurate movie both badly made and badly acted.
I take it as a bad comedy.
but millions have paid to see it
anyway, nice to see youre getting your info from an unbiased source.
talk about revisionist history, youve actually helped prove some of what i posted.

Unfortunetley most people do.

From: movies, inaccurate and bias books, Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, Penn and Teller, "mythbusters", and on and on.
 
Top