Riddle me this...

[gunslingingbird]

I don't mean to bitch or anything, but I just thought that I would share my frustration with you guys.

As you may or may not know, I am a stagehand. I've never been on tour before, but I've always thought that, should the opportunity present itself, I would like to go on the road to see for myself what life on the road is like. Well, tonight the opportunity presented itself, yet eluded me once again.

I was working the Mayhem Festival (for those who don't know what that is, it's sort of like a new, heavier Ozzfest. The headliners are Marilyn Manson and Slayer, and they have many other bands, including Cannibal Corpse, Black Dahlila Murders, Behemoth, Goätwhore, Killswitch Engage, As I Lay Dying, God Forbid, etc., on the show) at Shoreline Amphitheater. At some point during the load in one of the tour carpenters went apeshit and cut a hole in the soundwall (a soundwall is basically a piece of very thick tarp that surrounds the stage to prevent sound from going everywhere and keep it aimed at the crowd). Now, mind you, the soundwall, as anything else in the industry, is VERY expensive, and, since the guy was an employee of the tour, the tour was responsible for paying for the damages. Long story short, the guy was fired on the spot.

That left the tour without a carpenter. The production manager pretty much told everyone that, if we were interested in the position, we should ask the tour manager for an interview, as they would need to hire someone to replace numbnuts before the end of the day. Also, the production people started making calls to see if they could find their own replacement.

Well, I decided that this was my best opportunity so far, as I am a fairly competent stage carpenter and can accomplish the tasks required of the position. I went and spoke to the tour manager, and he asked what kind of experience I have. I told him that I have almost a decade's worth of experience in various aspects of stagecraft, but that I had always worked locally and had never been on tour.

Big mistake, apparently, as he proceeded to inform me that the person that they wanted to fill the position needed to have at least a year's touring experience. Well, fucking fuck, how the fuck am I supposed to get touring experience if tours are only willing to hire experienced touring personnel? :crash:

 

[Lungzyn]

Start smaller?

 

[Ozmanks]

Sounds like you got a bad break. Keep your head up, you always have porn.

 

[Jeep!]

That's the way jobs have always worked. Experience necessary! It's the biggest catch-22 there is.
However, if you joined a tour on a smaller job and got the experience from the bottom up, it could probably help.

 

[BlueBalls]

I'm going to reiterate the comments above. I think maybe going on tour with a smaller band and not a huge festival is probably the best place to start.

Unless you wanna join my band and we could go on tour? I play a mean ........ nothing, I play nothing at all

 

[Shindekudasai]

A friend of mine has exactly the same problem, even though he worked for the biggest agency and promoter in this area and can plan and implement an event (like a metal festival for example) from the beginning to the end. He even worked gigs for Joe Cocker, but it's no more than a nice name on his résumé to some people. That's just the way it is.

I'd give you the same advice almost everyone else gave: start small and try to become part of a tour agency or a music label. And always ask, ask, ask and be everywhere. The more they see your face, the better.

 

[jasonk282]

That's the way jobs have always worked. Experience necessary! It's the biggest catch-22 there is.
However, if you joined a tour on a smaller job and got the experience from the bottom up, it could probably help.

Bingo, sad thing thats how EVERY job works. Can't play with the big boys without starting with the small biys. Mayhem is a killer fest and I am sure the bands who are not small name ones want it to look professional. Not saying that you can't delivier, but when dealing the likes of Slayer, Behemoth, Caniball Corpse etc... I would take it them want a guy with some experience just my 2 cents though

 

[DOA82]

Sounds like you got a bad break. Keep your head up, you always have porn.

Oh yea, im sure thats gonna come as great solace to the guy.

"You Missed out on a great life changing event, but you can still sit by your pc and jerk off!"

Hallmark card are expecting your call!

In regards to GSB's actual dilemma, tough break, but its the same catch 22 for everything, no experience, no job, but no job means no experience. Ive never understood that myself, you can and in this case seem to have overwhelming qualification for the job, but left out cause of some experience you probably wont even need and despite this would probably have done a better job then whoever they hired.

 

[Legzman]

Big mistake, apparently, as he proceeded to inform me that the person that they wanted to fill the position needed to have at least a year's touring experience. Well, fucking fuck, how the fuck am I supposed to get touring experience if tours are only willing to hire experienced touring personnel? :crash:

Seems to be the way it is in every industry. Companies only want to hire those with experience. I've asked myself that question with lots of different jobs I've wanted to apply for. But didn't bother cause they said "must have x years experience.

 

[mosvie]

nearly every company hires the one with the most experiance, try again if the situation ever arises again.

 

[extremeb]

Big mistake, apparently, as he proceeded to inform me that the person that they wanted to fill the position needed to have at least a year's touring experience. Well, fucking fuck, how the fuck am I supposed to get touring experience if tours are only willing to hire experienced touring personnel? :crash:

Embelish bird dude.... I'm not saying outright lie. To me it sounds like they were almost desperate to hire someone immediately to fill hole guy's spot. You sound like you have a ton of pratical experience, you could have pulled it off if you were, let's say less than 100% honest about your road experience.

 

[gunslingingbird]

Actually, it's easier to join a bigger production than a smaller one. Huge productions tend to need shitloads of people, both local and touring, and some companies, in an attempt to fill their numbers, will hire anybody with a pulse. Just as a comparison, the call for Britney Spears was about 250 local crew, and enough touring personnel to need 20 tour buses, while a call for an act like Skinny Puppy is filled with 8 local hands, and the road crew and the band occupy exactly one tour bus.

Smaller productions tend to be staffed with people who were name-called by either the tour manager or the artist. For example, a guy that I work with got on the road as Pitbull's production assistant/backline tech/merch guy because he's Pitbull's friend. Mudvayne's stage manager is the guitarist's brother.

A big production is a good way of getting to know people, and smaller gigs are often filled by people who met the right people at larger gigs. I have heard numerous stories of people who got on some cattle-call show and ended up as the guitar tech for a band or the monitor guy for another because they happened to work with the tour manager on another tour.

Another problem with big productions is that they tend to pay less than smaller ones. On a huge metal show like Slayer the crews are lucky to make $900 a week (that's $900 for 5 or 6 18+ hour days). Something like the Warped Tour pays maybe half of that, and people usually do it just because they're either new or because they're desperate for work. On smaller gigs it's not uncommon for people to make $1500-2000 a week, plus per diem.

Not all big tours are that bad, though. Rolling Stones, Britney Spears, Madonna, stuff like that usually hire the best road crews they can find, and they pay them pretty well. I guess it really depends on the vendors that the tour manager decides to hire. PRG Lighting tends to be much more reliable and professional than, say, Morpheus Lighting, and they price their shows accordingly.

Also, for those who said that it's all about the name, not really. In the industry names don't necessarily mean as much as they do to consumers. Metal bands tend to be pretty cheap and low budget, while country acts spare no expenses and tend to go for top-of-the-line on everything.

I know that perseverance is the way to do it, but it's just really frustrating to keep getting turned down.

 

[Skyraider22]

Well I sure there is someone out there who is willing to take a chance on you and give you a shot.Good luck I wish you all the best:thumbsup:

 

[Ainttalkinlove]

yeah its stupid. its almost impossible to get experience with out experience (How the fuck does that work?). But as with everything else Its not who you know its who you blow:blowjob:

 

[fake_ono]

Embelish bird dude.... I'm not saying outright lie. To me it sounds like they were almost desperate to hire someone immediately to fill hole guy's spot. You sound like you have a ton of pratical experience, you could have pulled it off if you were, let's say less than 100% honest about your road experience.

this guy just got your job... :hammer:

 

[lurkingdirk]

dude, this sucks. i know this industry intimately, and all i can say is the douche who didn't hire you likely made a big mistake. i'd talk to him again, and be aggressive. truth be told, most people in a hiring position on tours like this are so jerked around by the artists they're looking for PERFECT solutions when problems come up. so he wants someone as good as you with a slightly different experience profile? bullshit.

the person hired doesn't HAVE to have anything except the skills to do the job.

and man, that sounds like an intense gig with a lot of pressure. if you don't ever have to travel with those artists, i'd avoid it. high-energy performers like the ones you mentioned are meatheads between shows.

 

[Hypergalaxy]

That sucks man but just hang in there another opportunity will come around and be grateful you have the job you do it sounds pretty kickass

 

[gunslingingbird]

i'd talk to him again, and be aggressive.

Yeah, except for the minor logistical detail that they're in San Bernardino today, and something like San Diego or Arizona tomorrow.

and man, that sounds like an intense gig with a lot of pressure. if you don't ever have to travel with those artists, i'd avoid it. high-energy performers like the ones you mentioned are meatheads between shows.

I honestly don't care what the act is, I just want road experience. Of course I know that all the hardcore metal acts tend to have crews that have orange juice and an eight ball for breakfast. That's not news to me.

I think the high pressure is gonna be the same for every tour. I mean, you arrive at a completely unfamiliar venue in the morning with the expectation that each and every show is gonna be the same day after day. The reality is that it's virtually impossible for those standards to be met. There are building issues, union jurisdictional issues, local crew competence issues, etc., etc., but the show doesn't care about that, they just care about the finished product. I think I can deal with all that crap, I just want to know that I can deal with it. :hatsoff:

 

[ChefChiTown]

Well, fucking fuck, how the fuck am I supposed to get touring experience if tours are only willing to hire experienced touring personnel? :crash:

I used to work as an executive recruiter for a little while, so allow me to give you some knowledge that I learned on the job...

In most cases (not all, but most), if an employer says that they require a potential employee to have X number of years worth of experience, it is mainly to deter people with absolutely NO experience from applying for the job.

For example...

If a company is looking for a VP of Sales and their requirements ask that potential employees have 5+ years experience as a VP of Sales, it doesn't mean that they won't interview or seriously consider a person with only 3 years of experience as a VP of Sales. Requirements like that are usually asked for just to eliminate any potential employees that would be a complete waste of their time (recent school graduates with no experience of any kind, people who have just recently changed careers, etc). Employers know damn well that not every single person has a ton of experience in their respective field; we all have to start somewhere and employers are well aware of that.

My advice: apply for as many touring positions as you possibly can. You might not get a job offer from each tour you apply with, but I'm willing to bet that somebody will take a chance on you, especially if your skills are solid, your work ethic is top of the line and your references can back all of that up.

*The only reason some of these tours require that you have at least 1 year's worth of touring experience is to keep the brand new, unexperienced, clueless stagehands from applying - NOT people like you.