Rewarding Illegal Immigration?

[Iamforever]

And rightfully so. If we can put up 'Trepassers will be shot' on our property, we can do so with a vengeance on our borders. Bullets are cheaper than green cards + paperwork + labor on the INS side of things.

i was going to nominate your post for post of the week until i read this excerpt.
i live in southern california. yes "they" did take some jobs that i applied for, but this isnt the way to deal with it. this statement is ignorance at its worst. i really, really hope you were joking. i never condone killing just for the sake of killing, which is what you are making reference to. i do want stricter border policies, but death?

 

[Torre82]

Absolutely. Immigration costs are between 67 and 87 billion a year. 8 billion dollars is sent back to Mexico, annually.

In-country crime costs Americans $675 billion each year. It would be, statistically.. and logically even less than that if illegal immigrants were out-of-country as they should be. Less people, less crime. Less Mexican gangs.

By comparison.. its cost us a bit above 300 billion to f!ck over Afghanistan and Iraq... SINCE 9/11/01!

Arizona, Texas and Florida looking at the same cost factors(Education of immigrants and incarceration studied by the Urban Institute 10 years earlier, i.e., education3, emergency medical care and incarceration. Our findings of the annual net fiscal costs were:
California $8.8 billion ($1,183 per native household)

Arizona $1.03 billion
($717 per native household)

Texas $3.73 billion
($725 per native household)
Florida $.91 billion
($315 per native household)

These studies were done in 2004 and 2005, and the rapid continuing increase in the illegal immigrant population in each of these states would result in higher estimates of the fiscal cost today.


Now.. its not a question of whether you can ignore the 'elephant in the room'. Do you want to give away your money? Your family's money? Or would you rather donate 10$ to INS for 100 bullets? You can either let them in, give them jobs and pay for THEIR livelihood.. or you can send a message. This is more of an invasion than a 'Taliban' could ever mount, friend. You want to let them come in, break laws and steal your money silently?

Let's be completely honest here.. we're not committing genocide. We're not killing Jews(bless our hearts) in labor camps. We're not killing JUST to be killing. The country is a mess as it is, who are we to double/triple our problems for uninvited guests? We SHOULD be doing the self-serving, cost-effective thing. Seriously.. you want congress to sit around and *debate* about spending MORE money? Hell, even shooting at their feet and scaring them would scare 'em from coming, so its not like this is going to hurt a MILLION people!

Ask yourself if you'd insure your neighbor, pay their school bills and give them plenty of foodstamps per month. I'd barely lend my neighbors a cigarette, AND! The noisy-assed guy next door only lasts about two minutes! His place must've been built on some old Indian Premature Ejaculation Grounds! Anyhow, thats how I see it. Dont waste money on prevention/defense. The best defense is a good offense.


Or how about:
Re: Have you ever had a friend you would die for to save them?
IAF:im not losing everything for some guy down the street.

Sources:

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_localcosts

http://www.theamericanresistance.com/issues/economic_costs.html

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/crime.html

 

[KungFuDude]

Excellent post Torre82min :thumbsup:

Let me also add that the DEA estimates that 91% of all the illegal drugs that come into the U.S. are smuggled by land over the U.S./Mexico border. The Mexican cartels have outgrown their Columbian counterparts and now control the drug trade into the U.S. We can't get the Mexican government to stop them. The Mexican government is still way more corrupt then our own. Since they also won't let us go in there and stop them, we have to stop them at the border somehow. A fence, a wall, a moat with alligators, whatever works.

 

[Evil]

Send them back

 

[Iamforever]

Or how about:
Re: Have you ever had a friend you would die for to save them?
IAF:im not losing everything for some guy down the street.

okay. decent points. but, i dont know why you quoted this. if you mean that immigrants are going to take everything from me, thats not the case. if i invest 10 bucks on bullets and kill some of them, then i lose everything. but not if i leave them be. maybe its too early in the morning, but i cant figure out why this quote has something to do with this thread. :glugglug:

 

[gaunameister]

Remember Berlin?

 

[Torre82]

Indeed I remember Berlin.

http://www.agecon.ucdavis.edu/aredepart/facultydocs/Martin/Germany.php

Their immigration problem is unaddressed and harming them, too!

to IAF: It was a reference that you wouldnt lose everything for some random guy. Well, I dunno if you're like me.. but I consider it an imposition to donate 5 bucks at work to some stupid pool where they buy a going-away present for this guy or that girl.. or maybe a get-well present. For frick's sake I dont even know those people, let alone consider them a friend.. they're not getting a cent from me and spare me the evil look!

My point was that. The ones that're already here are taking money that I, for one.. dont have. A couple hundred extra per year? Awesome. Some entry level landscaping and construction jobs? Hell yeah I'd take 'em. Its utter lunacy that its a job no self-respecting American would pass over. It pays well and the fringe benefits are excellent. But their numbers are growing, and its just going to get worse. Politicians and employers touting immigration as a perk? Bull. You cant trust either in this capitalist society.

And.. as a personal opinion..its utterly tiring to have to speak an extra language just to talk to the 'help', and listen to that..mexican..polka.. whatever-it-is stuff on their 3-going-on-4 radio stations that they play loudly in their cars. It took me a while to get used to the bumper-rattling rap, now I have to listen to Hector e Hefe's Mariachi's con Huevos fiesta hora?!

 

[Iamforever]

And.. as a personal opinion..its utterly tiring to have to speak an extra language just to talk to the 'help', and listen to that..mexican..polka.. whatever-it-is stuff on their 3-going-on-4 radio stations that they play loudly in their cars. It took me a while to get used to the bumper-rattling rap, now I have to listen to Hector e Hefe's Mariachi's con Huevos fiesta hora?!

okay, i understand now. i agree on some level.

i dont think its tiring to have to speak another language. i for one speak two languages. english and bad english. but for real, i think its tiring when our country expects you to learn other languages. its like if you are not bi-lingual, you wont get hired. that part hurts. i would bet that other countries make their immigrants learn the national language. that should be the case in the usa, but its not. its almost like the government caters to foreign relations more than its own citizens. if this is true, then now im sad.

 

[Torre82]

Eh, even tho I sprechen some deutsch and habla some espanol, you're right on that account. Living in SoCal or SoFlorida means you're practically in THEIR country, it seems. Even if you understand whats being said, around you.. its still an alien feeling. I dont think its prejudice to say that everyone should be in their own area. Its a comfort thing. Honestly there is enough space for entire cities to be made and inhabit them with this group or that age.. per town/city block/whatever. This area over here's for single mothers, this area for families of four.. its like putting you in an area-support group. Over here's the senior community, over there's the Jewish Quarter..

Anyhow, its just wishful thinking. Everyone seems to have something to prove against the other races. Mix with this, incorporate that..fix them, ignore these. Bah. Give me your 'poor tired masses'? Thats great to START a country but to maintain one takes more than quoting antiquated texts. If you take in poor, uneducated masses.. well gee, the upper 1% isnt going to pay their education bills so that leaves us with a sh!tload of poor, tired masses. First-generation immigrants arent going to be assimilated into our society in any useful way. 20, 30 years down the line when the second and third-gen's turn out moreso like our American kids.. ya know, lazy, cell-phone toting pop-culture freaks... thats when theyll start contributing, so the government thinks. You educate and feed them.. and bam, they turn into us. But then what, will they still work for minimum wage and landscaping? Hell no. Then we have tons more people vying for the same jobs you and I have! So they're hard workers. Yeah, THIS generation. America has a way of making you slothful. So 50 years down the line we'll have another subculture that believes 'The Man' is holding them down. Hell, I'm a white-assed Jew and nobody hands me the kosher silver plate! What's going to happen when there is even ONE more person, let alone a half-dozen going for the same jobs? Immigration just has mistake written all over it. Like the article on germany says up above.. temporary workers are the most permanent. We shouldnt rely on them. We shouldnt undercut the people that have lived here for decades because Big Brother wants to save 2.50 an hour hiring elsewhere. Which leads to outsourcing.. when the Mexicans no longer work for minimum wage?

Ya know how we killed the natives when we settled in America? Now we're the new Indians being pushed off the land. An American tradition: Out with the old.

 

[dangerousD]

let's keep our eyes on the ball, kids....the topic is "ILLEGAL Immigration". If something is "illegal", it is against the law. Period. The who, what, why when or how is irrelevant.

Until they make murder legal, it's not ok to go out and kill someone. You cannot evade paying your taxes because it is against the law. Buying cocaine on the street corner is illegal. Illegal immigrants are breaking the law because they are here ILLEGALLY.

Fox, if you are here illegally, you have broken the law. There is no other way to put it. You may have cured cancer since your time here in the U.S. but you still have broken the law by coming to this country illegally.

You can't be "a little bit pregnant" on this. Either you have broken the law or you haven't.

 

[dangerousD]

Fox:

How can you type with a straitjacket on?

To answer your points:

Don't be a moron, I did not compare murder to illegal immigration. I said that both are currently illegal.

However, you equate your entering and staying in this country illegally to running a stop sign? Who's the one being "weak"?

If they change the immigration laws, fine. But as for right now, IT IS ILLEGAL.

You must be proud for breaking the law so "very, very many times."

I understand the process you went through with hiring an immigration lawyer and paying big bucks. And you paid that money because he had you by the short hairs. What else were you going to do? However, this "loophole" process pisses me off as I went through the "legal" channels on getting my wife here from Mexico. Not a knock against you but against the system.

Look, it is apparent that you have an enormous chip on your shoulder and find offense to those who have a problem with people entering this country illegally.

It is scary that you take pride and are content with what you did. It is scarier that the majority of illegals share your point of view and they see it as a "victimless crime" like running a red light at 3am when no one is around. Then they flaunt their actions by parading around saying, "I technically shouldn't be here, but I am. Whatcha gonna do about it?" But when the U.S. tries to do something about it like build a wall, they get all pissy and wonder what the problem is.

For whatever reason you came illegally into this country (I assume it was to have a better way of life) it was the wrong thing to do. I am not denying you from having a better life but you shouldn't run away from your problems and mooch off those who got it right. Sounds like those who are still in your native land need to fix their own country instead of taking the easy way out, coming here illegally and punishing the U.S. for being (for lack of a better term) successful.

Let's reverse roles here. I assume you are from a Latin country. In this case, let's say Mexico. I have lived/worked in Mexico for a number of years. I respect their heritage and patriotism. I would even say that the average Mexican is more patriotic than the American. But I can guarantee you that if I entered their country illegally, they would be just as much up in arms as the U.S. currently is.

You don't respect national boundaries and stick your middle finger to immigration laws. Wow. Gotta take that in for a minute.

 

[chrsur]

What I am about to say on the illegal immigration issue is all that needs to be said.

Why must you come to America? Every one of you has your own country. Would you not rather live in your own country and be prosperous. Why must you come to America and change are way of life. Be a Man and do what we Americans did to the English. Take your Mexico back from the corrupt politicians and the drug lords that are currently running your country. If you were to do this I would be the first one in line to help you take your country back. I can not respect any man who would rather change someone else’s way of life and country. Take Mexico back and make it one of the great nations of the world. Do not run from the poverty and corruption in your country. Stand up and be heard. Yes, that might come with repercussions, but that’s what taking a stand is all about. You (Mexicans) have a great country but all of you choose the easy way out. You would rather come to America illegally and allow your country to further fall into the hands of thieves, thugs, and corrupt politicians. The Mexican people need to start a Revolution. The Revolution should be against the ones in power in Mexico and not against the people of America.

 

[killroy1233]

we all must think of this. most of us have family that come from another country. now if your in a relationship and love that person. and your very anti immigration. think about her. what if someone a long time ago sent her family back to there home country. she wouldnt be here right now. and if you love that person. you would hate that very much. and for the rest of you. think about all these pornstars. same thing goes for them. i understand theres a problem with immigration. but all we need to do is to control the number coming in each year. and get rid of the dipshits that are doing bad things here. and the problem goes away at times.

 

[Iamforever]

What I am about to say on the illegal immigration issue is all that needs to be said.

Why must you come to America? Every one of you has your own country. Would you not rather live in your own country and be prosperous.[b/] Why must you come to America and change are way of life.

you really dont have a clue, do you? a lot of the people who come to the states are poor. they are oppressed in their corrupt countries. so, how can they prosper? america offers prosperity. its not true, but the offer is still there.

 

[bigbadbrody]

http://board.freeones.com/showpost.php?p=1018506&postcount=7

 

[dangerousD]

http://board.freeones.com/showpost.php?p=1018506&postcount=7

You make it sound like the Mexican immigrant just loves to roll out of bed and go "picking in the fields, and orchards, garbage clean-up and so-on".

They are most likely here because they can make more money doing manual labor (i.e. crappy jobs) than they ever could in Mexico. Believe me, just about all illegal Mexican immigrants want to return to thier homeland but the almighty dollar vs. peso makes it difficult to do so.

I agree, the average American looks down upon manual labor as being beneath them. To the Mexican illegal immigrant, they approah it as "Man, I'll scrape that paint off your house for $100 ($1000 pesos) if you don't want to".

But most just save up their money after a few months or years (after sending what they can to their homes in Mexico), return home, live like a king until the money runs out, cross illegally and do it all over again.

 

[dangerousD]

Furthermore, it's mot about the illegals wanting to come to the U.S., it is about them not wanting to stay in their own country.

 

[dangerousD]

but can't you see? You cannot make up the rules as you go. Laws are there for a reason, usually created for the greater good of society. You cannot run a red light just because you believe that they are stupid or authoritative. Whether you believe in them or not is irrelevant. If you don't like the rules, campaign to change them.

You say:
I don't respect national boundaries at all, I respect all nations and I love so many different places, and no law will ever convince me that we are all not free to go wherever and settle wherever we please. I respect animals and the environment and all humans as equals. I don't respect flags, laws that are made to keep the rich rich and the poor poor, or out of the country, etc. To limit our freedom."

It's very romantic to think this way but real life in not like the John Lennon song. Who doesn't want to live in an utopia? But you better be careful as your ideals might get you in trouble.

 

[Torre82]

You cant fight Fox on this issue. '******* believes, without a doubt that nobody owns anything. You cant truly own another person, and those people who have lived on the same soil for a hundred years never really own IT, either. We're all just renting, or still stealing from the natives whom most of us have never seen.. let alone killed and planted a flag over their grave.

Fox, the point is obvious.. but it is by far a minority. So you have a problem with home.. namely, you dont trust it. You've ran away from your family and home.. and G_d love ya for it, I'm no less dysfunctional! But so many people have faith and trust.. that their home is sacred. A home is everything. Land, comfort.. you can store your stuff and indulge all your whims inside of that little den of privacy. People miss it when they leave.

So you need money and skills to go to another country, whats wrong with that? Having the guise of of something that doesnt want to take in the worlds refuse isnt a shameful stance. Lack of enforcing it especially shows on poor, desperate immigrants. You dont thousands of englishmen coming over and living in hovels while getting their 3 bucks an hour, 'ey? Half have a choice, the other half dont face up to problems on their own turf. Problems follow people, and that is what we're debating.

As for your girlfriend.. well, women are not in power. So emotional to tolerate the system. Too humanitarian. People die, atrocities are committed on the good choices and the bad. It takes a leader to choose the lesser of two evils.

Addressing one issue at a time here, if people didnt own land in their hearts, then would everywhere would be equal because the entire world would be our backyard? But, thats just not so. Your argument states almost nothing factual. Its all opinions and feelings "dont pay the bills".

She doesnt like it, so she's *getting out*. The immigrants dont like it, so they are. In the face of all the reality of coming to grab land.. and all the quotes.. it would be a lie that you dont care what people say. Nothing to be ashamed of, but you just spent a couple minutes writing up a defense of your own ethics. Multiple quotes, a point-for-point retort with steadfast denials that every boundary in the world is null and artificial. A war of opinions gets ugly too fast.

Regardless, your whole post reads as a defensive, sometimes contrary opinion. The facts speak louder than something where so many of your sentences start with "I, me and my". You keep worrying about "I". Self-serving doesnt lend itself to running "We, the rest of us".

As for contrary..it is human nature to judge, to feel.. to divide into like-minded groups. You can deny your humanity or you can control and embrace it. The ultra-patriotic.. are divided even further. You have those who wish Bush would be emperor, and you have others.. that are patriotic in the sense that our country is under attack by its own government and zealous, warmongering ways.. they want it to go back to what it was ten years ago. Love thy country, even though it is glaringly flawed.

As for myself, as part of the most hated people on the planet.. I dont have the luxury of BS'ing myself that we're all equal. I lovingly play the Jewish card and exercise any control I can because history can only prove me right, that we are all divided beyond color, creed and beliefs. We're human and someone has to face facts and then coordinate them into something that BENEFITS everyone.

 

[HeartBroker]

Come here legally and be welcomed, illegally, expect to be shown the door!