Obama supports building a mosque at ground zero

[vodkazvictim]

I already posted these once on this thread, guess I'll post them again.
Interesting how those with strongly preconceived notions appeared to just skip right on past them.

The internet is loaded with sources referencing moderate muslims and muslim groups speaking out against terrorism.
You could spend all day on the first link alone.

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php
http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter16.htm
http://www.alislam.org/response.html
http://www.ciogc.org/Go.aspx?link=7655053

muslims and muslim groups condemn Fort Hood ********:
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=musl...=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=eb25b226ce9fcffe

Thanks for posting that. I wanted to make that point, but I didn't have the sources to provide.

How could you guys of the anti religious far left political persuasion possibly advocate for a known far right wing persuasion of religious faith, a faith whose members have guaranteed that everybody must convert or die? Have the christians ever made such threats? You wouldn't defend them under any circumstances. I just don't understand where the connection is, is this where the extreme far left meets in harmony with extreme far right?
I plead with you, disclose your hidden agenda for all to see! Stop beating 'round the bush, be consistent! The muslim community sure as hell ain't gonna tolerate your risque progressivism, that's for damned sure, so why come to their defense?


Why would you be citing the Constitution of the United States of America as a means of defending your muslim fiends . . . err . . that's friends. Is it because the predominant number of people ****** on 11 Sept., 2001 ended up being capitalist oriented people? No problem, you despise capitalists, the muslims despise capitalists.:dunno:
-or- Is it because the potus say's that it's OK to build a mosque in such close proximity to the site where approx 3k capitalists needlessly perished at the hands of radical extremist muslims, you must therefore march lock step with your freshman senator commander in chief? Other? :dunno:

Yes, the left exists only to destroy religion thats why it defends Islam on occasion.

 

[Hot Mega]

How could you guys of the anti religious far left political persuasion possibly advocate for a known far right wing persuasion of religious faith, a faith whose members have guaranteed that everybody must convert or die? Have the christians ever made such threats? You wouldn't defend them under any circumstances. I just don't understand where the connection is, is this where the extreme far left meets in harmony with extreme far right?
I plead with you, disclose your hidden agenda for all to see! Stop beating 'round the bush, be consistent! The muslim community sure as hell ain't gonna tolerate your risque progressivism, that's for damned sure, so why come to their defense?


Why would you be citing the Constitution of the United States of America as a means of defending your muslim fiends . . . err . . that's friends. Is it because the predominant number of people ****** on 11 Sept., 2001 ended up being capitalist oriented people? No problem, you despise capitalists, the muslims despise capitalists.:dunno:
-or- Is it because the potus say's that it's OK to build a mosque in such close proximity to the site where approx 3k capitalists needlessly perished at the hands of radical extremist muslims, you must therefore march lock step with your freshman senator commander in chief? Other? :dunno:

Perhaps because you fixate on agenda instead of the facts.:dunno:

You're just another example of the right finding itself at odds with consistency because of buoying an agenda.

Fear not Face...there will be some other political non sequitur trumped up (by the GOPer media) in a month or two where the right can try and play like they're the rights and constitution crowd again.:yesyes::error::shy:

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

Your left, your left, your left, right, left...

 

[georges]

Perhaps because you fixate on agenda instead of the facts.:dunno:

You're just another example of the right finding itself at odds with consistency because of buoying an agenda.

Fear not Face...there will be some other political non sequitur trumped up (by the GOPer media) in a month or two where the right can try and play like they're the rights and constitution crowd again.:yesyes::error::shy:

Because the left isn't buying an agenda? Oh, come on , give me a break. Even under Clinton, the leftists were kissing the Arabs asses enormously, now with ***** O, it is going worse, it is like kneeing in front of them and showing that we due them something. How much unpatriotic can it be? When you lost a close friend or a relative during 9/11 and if you are enough patriotic, you say a firm and a non negotiable no to those who wants to build that Mosque close to GZ. Think about it.

 

[Hot Mega]

Because the left isn't buying an agenda? Oh, come on , give me a break. Even under Clinton, the leftists were kissing the Arabs asses enormously, now with ***** O, it is going worse, it is like kneeing in front of them and showing that we due them something. How much unpatriotic can it be? When you lost a close friend or a relative during 9/11 and if you are enough patriotic, you say a firm and a non negotiable no to those who wants to build that Mosque close to GZ. Think about it.

It's not a left/right issue. It's not a religious issue. It's not a kissing ass issue. Most people don't care who build's what there if they are American and/or have the proper permits. Permits being as long as they follow the city ordinances, codes and guidelines for construction and zoning....it doesn't matter who they are or what their beliefs are.

It's called rights. Take or leave it. What in your mind makes it "patriotic" to renege on the rights and protections people true patriots died protecting and defending??

When you don't have the right to prevent someone from exercising their rights...you'd be better served focusing your attention on more productive/important issues.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

This thread is tedious. But I can't stop watching.:dunno:

 

[ace.venturer]

Because the left isn't buying an agenda? Oh, come on , give me a break. Even under Clinton, the leftists were kissing the Arabs asses enormously, now with ***** O, it is going worse, it is like kneeing in front of them and showing that we due them something. How much unpatriotic can it be?

:eeew:

 

[StanScratch]

Roger Ebert puts his two cents in.

 

[Trident1]

:eeew:

Apparently you were too young to remember there was a war between Iraq and Iran from 1980-88. We and West Europe sided with Iraq.



I'd like to see where the funding is coming from for this mosque.




Mega I condemn the lot's theology and question their ideology. I still do not see the "moderates" going after the zealots.


Perhaps the left can do more to persuade them to come forth instead of doing the usual brown nosing and coddling.

 

[Friday on my mind]

Roger Ebert puts his two cents in.

Ebert has it right, not surprisingly.One of the things he said was this as well which is dead on,but Sarah Palin doesn't know it.(There is a petition to send Sarah a copy of the constitution since she is clueless as to what it says,I will post a new thread about it.But wanted to post this quote from Ebert who does understand the constitution.

2. The First Amendment comes down to this: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." It does not come down to: "The First Amendment gives me the right to shout the N-word 11 times on the radio to an
inoffensive black woman, and when you ****** me for saying it, you are in ********* of my First Amendment rights."

 

[Hot Mega]

Apparently you were too young to remember there was a war between Iraq and Iran from 1980-88. We and West Europe sided with Iraq.



I'd like to see where the funding is coming from for this mosque.

Presumably we're attacking the Islamists funding..ergo whatever funding Islamists do control is theoretically heading for the battlefield. Makes sense?

Also, it is a little inconsistent to provide someone with the tools to do your bidding then ****** them on that basis years later. Not just the same country..the same, exact fucking people.

Mega I condemn the lot's theology and question their ideology. I still do not see the "moderates" going after the zealots.

Really? Who the fuck is helping us **** all these zealots in Iraq, Afghanistan and other places then??? Pagans?

There are millions of moderates condemning the zealots everyday at the cost of their own lives. Who do you think wants the zealots gone in Iran (other than Jews)? Iranian Christians?

I mean, damn. That was easy.

Perhaps the left can do more to persuade them to come forth instead of doing the usual brown nosing and coddling.

The "left"? The whole premise for the right's support for invading and occupying Afghanistan and Iraq was that there were moderates there capable of being persuaded.

Perhaps some of can be more practical as they are the ones who's ideology is in question.

Like I said, maybe a trip to the Wiesenthal Center for Intolerance is in order for ol' Tri..

Didn't you say in a post you would side with Israel over the US once?:anonymous

 

[ace.venturer]

Apparently you were too young to remember there was a war between Iraq and Iran from 1980-88. We and West Europe sided with Iraq.

:why:

I'm well aware of the terrible choices that have been made by western governments in this region of the world.

Now it's Obama's job to try and clear up the mess handed to him by previous administrations.

I'm also aware that you say you're a Centrist. Does that mean your views are in between the Republican Party and who ever are the most extreme right wing nuts in America? :dunno:

 

[Bloodshot Scott]

I'm also aware that you say you're a Centrist. Does that mean your views are in between the Republican Party and who ever are the most extreme right wing nuts in America? :dunno:

Just a guess here; maybe it means he likes guns, porn (which is where he differs from neocons), sound fiscal policy, an end to the border chaos, and maybe God (or deity)?

 

[katalanfighters]

guys
America should be religious free government, bush has done enough for us to **** all the muslims, if anyone wants to build anything for religion, thats their right plus that building has been used as a mosque since early 90s...

 

[ace.venturer]

Just a guess here; maybe it means he likes guns, porn (which is where he differs from neocons), sound fiscal policy, an end to the border chaos, and maybe God (or deity)?

:dunno:

 

[Nester6]

They have every right to build a mosque there but my opinion it is poor taste.

Exactly right. Obama is pooor taste!

 

[Trident1]

Just a guess here; maybe it means he likes guns, porn (which is where he differs from neocons), sound fiscal policy, an end to the border chaos, and maybe God (or deity)?

Mega we need more moderates not just the few in Tehran wanting to overthrow the mullahs. Some of the "moderates" are being paid to fight so they don't count.
Others will melt away once we're gone and leave the battlefield for the Islamists so scratch them off too.

"Also, it is a little inconsistent to provide someone with the tools to do your bidding then ****** them on that basis years later. Not just the same country..the same, exact fucking people."

Uh yeah I agree it sucks. The US ditched our Cold War ally Yugoslavia, and our old ally since WWI the Serbs, and quickly demonized them. Sound familiar?





Oh and as to the US and Iraq circa 1984; France, and West Germany supplied Saddam the means to fully employ chemical munitions.

That advertisement for a "new foreign policy" has more holes in it than swiss cheese. They conveniently gloss over facts.

 

[Hot Mega]

Mega we need more moderates not just the few in Tehran wanting to overthrow the mullahs.

Actually we don't "need" anything. That's the idiotic mindset that cost us a trillion dollars chasing Saddam around Tikrit. If the Iranians want a different form and/or type of leadership it's up to them. But to constantly accuse Islam of not having moderates is pretty silly when these people did far more in rising up against ****** opposition than moderate GOPers did in defending our constitution and laws with words and votes against GWB.

Some of the "moderates" are being paid to fight so they don't count.

So you have another way these people are suppose to feed themselves and their families while they 'fight'? But if it is as you say they have some deep down belief..why are they even taking money to do this?? Further, there is much more evidence they are paid to engage in some terrorist acts or their families are otherwise compensated than them being paid to 'fight' against it. Therefore, allot of these people are not really Islamists who do some of these things but people doing it for the money.

Others will melt away once we're gone and leave the battlefield for the Islamists so scratch them off too.

At the personal level it is about survival at the end of the day. So if we can't convince some of these people they will be protected against getting whacked or as soon as they pledge their allegiance to our cause we leave them high and dry to trump up a war against some other country...WWYD??

Bottom line is, there are far more Islamic moderates than not. Otherwise we would be in constant war with them and not simply trying to track down a criminal syndicate hiding in mountains.

But alas, it doesn't matter what truth is explained to you. You have your agenda facts be damned and you are no more capable of accepting these realities than Hitler was of seeing redemptive qualities in Jews.

To me some of these people are contributing a Herculean effort in light of our lopsided policies toward some of them.

"Also, it is a little inconsistent to provide someone with the tools to do your bidding then ****** them on that basis years later. Not just the same country..the same, exact fucking people."

Uh yeah I agree it sucks. The US ditched our Cold War ally Yugoslavia, and our old ally since WWI the Serbs, and quickly demonized them. Sound familiar?

Oh and as to the US and Iraq circa 1984; France, and West Germany supplied Saddam the means to fully employ chemical munitions.

That advertisement for a "new foreign policy" has more holes in it than swiss cheese. They conveniently gloss over facts.

France and West Germany didn't try and create circumstances to then overthrow the Baathists...Cheney and Rumsfeld did.

 

[Trident1]

it's up to them. But to constantly accuse Islam of not having moderates is pretty silly

Further, there is much more evidence they are paid to engage in some terrorist acts or their families are otherwise compensated than them being paid to 'fight' against it. Therefore, allot of these people are not really Islamists who do some of these things but people doing it for the money.


you are no more capable of accepting these realities than Hitler was of seeing redemptive qualities in Jews.



France and West Germany didn't try and create circumstances to then overthrow the Baathists...Cheney and Rumsfeld did.

I never said there aren't any moderates. I said the moderates need to do a lot more than a weak Saturday afternoon protest.


Nice try Mega but plenty go doing Allahs will without money.

Not really Islamist. Oh my Gawd!:1orglaugh


So you're equating my attitude to Hitler? Excuse me?


France, W. Germany and the US wanted Iraq to hold it's own against the Iranian mob.
If you're old enough you'd remember how pissed off we Americans were(and still are) towards the Iranian gov't for taking our people hostage for 444 days.
Anyway to get back at those smelly bastards was the order of tha day.

 

[Hot Mega]

I never said there aren't any moderates. I said the moderates need to do a lot more than a weak Saturday afternoon protest.

They are! They are putting their lives on the line every day backing our policies.

Nice try Mega but plenty go doing Allahs will without money.

Plenty do the will of a criminal enterprise...that's all we do know.

Not really Islamist. Oh my Gawd!:1orglaugh

Some poor bastard planting a roadside bomb for money or fighting nationalistically against what they see as a foreign invader = automatic Islamist to you?

So you're equating my attitude to Hitler? Excuse me?

I'm saying for as many redemptive qualities as could be explained to Hitler, you and he would seem equal to the task in your making of excuses against the case for moderate Muslims as he would against Jews. IOW, you're equally incorrigible.

France, W. Germany and the US wanted Iraq to hold it's own against the Iranian mob.
If you're old enough you'd remember how pissed off we Americans were(and still are) towards the Iranian gov't for taking our people hostage for 444 days.
Anyway to get back at those smelly bastards was the order of tha day.

I don't have a single problem with helping Saddam against a common enemy. The problem I have is to then spend a trillion dollars changing him out afterwards.