Obama, Iranian Official Slam GOP Letter On Deal

Mayhem

Banned
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/09/politics/gop-senators-letter-to-iran/


President Barack Obama slammed Republican senators who penned a letter attempting to warn Iran that any pending nuclear agreement will face their scrutiny, claiming they were aligning themselves with Iranian "hard-liners."

"I think it's somewhat ironic to see some members for Congress wanting to make common cause with the hard-liners in Iran. It's an unusual coalition," Obama said Monday ahead of a meeting with European Council President Donald Tusk.

"I think what we're going to focus on right now is actually seeing whether we're going to get a deal or not. Once we do, if we do, we'll be able to make the case to the American people, and I'm confident we'll be able to implement it," Obama said.

Nearly every Senate Republican has signed on to an open letter to Iran's leaders warning that without their approval, any Iran nuclear deal signed by Obama will be null and void after he leaves office.

But a top Iranian negotiator and Democrats slammed the letter, calling it a purposeful attempt to undermine the delicate negotiations as they reach a pivotal deadline later this month.

"We believe this letter has no legal value and is indeed just a propaganda ploy," said Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif, in a statement provided to and translated by CNN. "Whats more, while the negotiations have not yet borne fruit and there no agreement yet, pressure groups in the U.S. are so worried that they are using extraordinary measures to prove that they, just like Netanyahu oppose any kind of agreement."

The letter, authored by Arkansas Sen. Tom Cotton, states that the Constitution requires any international treaty to be ratified by a two-thirds vote in the Senate, and "anything not approved by Congress is a mere executive agreement." It also notes that presidents are barred from serving more than two terms in office and that the Obama administration ends in 2017.

"What these two constitutional provisions mean is that we will consider any agreement regarding your nuclear-weapons program that is not approved by the Congress as nothing more than an executive agreement between President Obama and Ayatollah Khamenei," the senators write. "The next president could revoke such an executive agreement with the stroke of a pen and future Congresses could modify the terms of the agreement at any time."

The letter is signed by 47 Republican senators, including every member of GOP leadership and all four the the chamber's potential presidential contenders: Sens. Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio and Lindsey Graham.

Cotton defended the letter during an appearance on CNN's "The Lead" on Monday.

"I support a good deal that stops Iran from getting a nuclear weapon today, tomorrow, 10 years from now, and forever," he told host Jake Tapper.

Sens. Jeff Flake, Lisa Murkowski, Lamar Alexander, Dan Coats, Thad Cochran, Susan Collins and Bob Corker didn't sign the letter. Murkowski and Coats are the only two up for re-election, and Coats is rumored to be considering retirement.

Collins said while she agrees any Iran agreement should come before the Senate, this letter won't likely sway negotiations.

"I don't think that he Ayatollah is going to be particularly convinced by a letter from members of the Senate even when signed by a number of my distinguished and high-ranking colleagues," she said on Monday.

Flake's spokeswoman Bronwyn Lance Chester said the senator agreed with the spirit of the letter, but abstained from signing it because he did not "believe the letter was necessary."

Corker, who's chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and has been pushing a bill to require congressional review of any deal, indicated that measure was his most pressing concern.

"As chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Sen. Corker's focus is on getting a veto-proof majority to support his bipartisan bill for congressional review of any comprehensive nuclear agreement with Iran," an aide said.

Speaking on Fox and Friends on Monday morning, Cotton again insisted that congressional approval is necessary for any deal to last.

"Any deal that is not approved by the Congress won't be accepted by the Congress now or in the future," he said, adding that he hopes more lawmakers and presidential candidates sign on.

But he indicated that congressional approval might be tough to get, if the developing contours of the deal remain intact.

The Arkansas Republican said that the terms of the deal, including Iran's robust uranium enrichment capability and the possibility of a sunset in as little as ten years, make it "unacceptable, dangerous to the United States, and dangerous to the world."

Cotton appears to have slightly flubbed the wording on treaty ratification, however — according to a 2001 Congressional Research Service Report, "it is the President who negotiates and ultimately ratifies treaties for the United States."

The Constitution does stipulate that the Senate plays a role in that process, however, by taking up a "resolution of ratification" that must pass with a two-thirds majority.

Zarif also claimed the GOP senators were ignorant of their own Constitution.

"This proves that [the senators] are not only strangers to the norms of international rights and regulations, but they also are not familiar with the intricate details of their own Constitution regarding the authority of the President of the United States in executing foreign policy," he said.

Despite the imprecise wording, the letter is intended to pressure the Obama administration to give Congress final approval over the developing deal with Iran over its nuclear program. A bipartisan group of senators is currently working to usher a bill to do just that through the Senate, but Democrats have said they won't move forward with the measure until the first deadline for the talks to bear fruit, at the end of this month.

The warning could have the added effect of further complicating already delicate talks between the two nations aimed at reigning in Iran's nuclear program.

Democrats on Monday accused Republicans of attempting to do just that, with White House press secretary Josh Earnest calling the letter a "continuation of a partisan strategy to undermine the President's ability to conduct foreign policy."

"To essentially throw sand in the gears here is not helpful, and is not, frankly, the role our founding fathers envisioned for Congress to play when it comes to our foreign policy," he said.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid disparaged Cotton's letter on the Senate floor, saying it was aimed at "sabotaging" the Iran talks.

"This letter is a hard slap not only in the face the United States, but our allies," Reid said, as Cotton -- who happened to be presiding over the Senate -- looked on. "This is not a time to undermine the commander in chief purely out of spite."

Senate Minority Whip Dick Durbin agreed, calling it a "cynical effort by Republican senators to undermine sensitive international negotiations" in a statement.

"It weakens America's hand and highlights our political divisions to the rest of the world," he said.

"Understand that if these negotiations fail, a military response to Iran developing their nuclear capability becomes more likely," Durbin said. "These Republican senators should think twice about whether their political stunt is worth the threat of another war in the Middle East."


I looked through past threads, and decided to start a new one. The Speech thread is about the speech.

It's funny that Republicans keep bleating about the Constitution without (apparently) knowing how it works.

And yes, they do sound exactly like Iranian hardliners. Exactly like them.
 
The Logan Act prohibits American citizens from communicating with foreign governments to conduct their own foreign policy. This move by Republicans is not quite at that level. As Dan Drezner wrote, “I don’t think an open letter from members of the legislative branch quite rises to Logan Act violations, but if there’s ever a trolling amendment to the Logan Act, this would qualify."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...yond-trolling-on-foreign-policy-it-wont-work/
 
Even when there's been clear violations of the Logan Act (Kerry negotiating with North Vietnam and the Vietcong), no one's ever been charged with it, at least in modern times.
 
Republicans to Iran : Don't bother giving any concessions, because when we give concessions, our words worth nothing. The words of the President of the United States means nothing and we would stab both you and him in the back as soon as possible.

Sabotaging the efforts of the president to come to a deal with a foreign country, in my book it has an name : treason.


The truth is that these republicans are afraid that Obama might succeed to have a deal with Iran and that the american people may credit him for achieving that. They say they could cancel the deal in a blink of an eye so why bothering to try to make the negociations fail ? Because the deal might be profitable for Obama and the next Democrat candidate.
 

Mayhem

Banned
Even when there's been clear violations of the Logan Act (Kerry negotiating with North Vietnam and the Vietcong), no one's ever been charged with it, at least in modern times.

I was going to let this slide, but I changed my mind. When did John Kerry negotiate anything with N. Vietnam and/or the Vietcong? What capacity did he negotiate in? What exactly was he negotiating for?
 
All the GOP is doing is telling Iran don't waste your time in a straight up matter.

People are forgetting that the COTUS must vote to ratified any treaty made. Who's really in charge?
 
All the GOP is doing is telling Iran don't waste your time in a straight up matter.

People are forgetting that the COTUS must vote to ratified any treaty made. Who's really in charge?
I would say Benjamin Netanyahu...

If this ends with a war with Iran, lets put the sons of these senators on the front-line. They want war with Iran, OK but don't send the sons of us citizens to die thre, send your own sons.
 
I was going to let this slide, but I changed my mind. When did John Kerry negotiate anything with N. Vietnam and/or the Vietcong? What capacity did he negotiate in? What exactly was he negotiating for?

I was going to let this slide, but I changed my mind. When did John Kerry negotiate anything with N. Vietnam and/or the Vietcong? What capacity did he negotiate in? What exactly was he negotiating for?

What the Logan Act states:

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

In 1970 Kerry, as an American citizen and also a U.S. naval officer at the time, traveled to Paris on his own accord and met with a delegation from North Vietnam and the Vietcong to discuss ways to end the war. This takes place while there were official negotiations taking place between the U.S. and North Vietnam. And one of the plans discussed was the American POWs being released if the U.S. would admit defeat and set a date for withdrawal from South Vietnam. Kerry then flew back to states, held a press conference where he urged the U.S. administration to adopt this peace plan and also pay reparations. I can imagine there was some back and forth going on with Kerry urging a tougher stance against the U.S. and the North Vietnamese telling him to calm down and be reasonable.
 

Mayhem

Banned
In 1970 Kerry, as an American citizen and also a U.S. naval officer at the time, traveled to Paris on his own accord and met with a delegation from North Vietnam and the Vietcong to discuss ways to end the war. This takes place while there were official negotiations taking place between the U.S. and North Vietnam. And one of the plans discussed was the American POWs being released if the U.S. would admit defeat and set a date for withdrawal from South Vietnam. Kerry then flew back to states, held a press conference where he urged the U.S. administration to adopt this peace plan and also pay reparations. I can imagine there was some back and forth going on with Kerry urging a tougher stance against the U.S. and the North Vietnamese telling him to calm down and be reasonable.

Everything that you're stating here comes from sources that have had one claim after another completely refuted. These same sources are the reason why the term "Swiftboating" is now a political term meaning: a harsh attack by a political opponent that is dishonest, personal, and unfair; an unfair or untrue political attack.

Let's get something clear: John Kerry did not lose us the war in Vietnam. Hanoi Jane (as disgusting as her actions were) did not lose us the war in Vietnam. No one individual, group of people or organisation lost us the war. We lost the war as a country and we were always going to lose it the way it was lost. And where in anyone's "imagination" is there a place where we withdraw and not get our POWs back? It takes quite an "imagination" to believe any of this.
 
Everything that you're stating here comes from sources that have had one claim after another completely refuted.

Just not these ones, right?

Kerry's sworn testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee in 1971:

I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points it has been stated time and time again, and was stated by Senator Vance Hartke when he returned from Paris, and it has been stated by many other officials of this Government, if the United States were to set a date for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned.

So Kerry met with the enemies with United States during wartime with no authority from the U.S. government to discuss a peace plan. What part of that has been refuted?


And no, John Kerry did not singularly lose use the war in Vietnam nor did Jane Fonda, but the U.S. anti-war movement was a factor. But that's another thread.
 
^ sorry for the spelling and syntax errors. Swype on my phone sucks and editing it over the phone is a hassle and I missed the 10 min deadline. But you get the gist.
 
Obama and Iran make the John Cena/Dolph Ziggler alliance look like ham 'n egg'rs
 

Ace Boobtoucher

Founder and Captain of the Douchepatrol
Did anyone else notice the attack on Senator Cotton's character rather than the merit of his letter? This is what passes for unbiased journalism.
 

Mayhem

Banned
So Kerry met with the enemies with United States during wartime with no authority from the U.S. government to discuss a peace plan. What part of that has been refuted?

Met, sat with, and negotiate are not interchangeable terms. This is my issue. If you or I go to Iran and sit with their leadership, there is absolutely no way we can be charged under the Logan Act. Why? Because you and I have nothing to negotiate with. Kerry couldn't have "negotiated" because he had nothing to give them.

To a different degree, this is what I have a problem with Congressional Republicans about. They keep yammering about ratifying a nuke treaty. How about sitting down and shutting up until there is a treaty to ratify? How about not polluting the process? Because this isn't about Iran, this isn't about nukes and it isn't about a treaty. It's about Republicans being their usual pain-in-the-ass selves, instead of letting our democratically elected Commander-in-Chief do the job he was hired to do.
 

Mayhem

Banned
Did anyone else notice the attack on Senator Cotton's character rather than the merit of his letter? This is what passes for unbiased journalism.

No. I didn't notice anything of the sort. But I will yield the floor to the board's, and possibly the world's expert on character attacks. Illuminate us please. Because goddamm it, whatever we might have been doing right now, it needs to stop until we play a round of "What Has Offended Johnny And How Can The Rest Of Us Piece Together His Shattered Sensibilities?"

And I sez to myself, "Self", I sez, "Oh no, he might neg rep me again."
 
If you or I go to Iran and sit with their leadership, there is absolutely no way we can be charged under the Logan Act.

It would be if you or I met with them, endorsed/rejected their proposal and came back home and lobbied for/against with intent to influence their conduct or U.S. foreign policy. Which is what Kerry did.

But would we be? No. Like I said, no one gets charged for it. Not since the 1800's.

The Logan Act makes no exception as to whether someone can actually achieve influence or not; it's based on intent.
 

Ace Boobtoucher

Founder and Captain of the Douchepatrol
If a journalist calls a US Senator "Tehran Tom," where's his integrity and journalistic ethics? I can assassinate character all day long and will continue to do so because I don't have to pretend to be unbiased. "Journalists" barely pay lip service to that any more. If there was any integrity in journalism today no politician would be electable.



Mayhem is a cock chugger. Now if I'd written that for any publication and included your real name I would probably be out of a job. Why isn't the dickhead who wrote that about Cotton out on his ass?
 
In 2007, then house speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) under objection from the Bush administration, met with Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad.
 
In 2007, then house speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) under objection from the Bush administration, met with Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad.
Did she told him that, Whatever Bush and him agreed on, the next Democratic POTUs will cosider it null and void ?
'cause the problem here is not the letter itself, it's the content of the letter, the fact that Republicans are trying to iundermine the negociations by telling to Iranian official : Whatever you and Obamz wil agree on, it will be repealed as soon as we get in office.
 
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