xfire
New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
Yeah, where's the gun grab?
http://thehill.com/blogs/regwatch/l...es-23-executive-orders-to-combat-gun-violence
http://thehill.com/blogs/regwatch/l...es-23-executive-orders-to-combat-gun-violence
Obama Announces 23 Executive Orders To Combat Gun Violence
- Thread starter xfire
- Start date
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
There are one or two in there, that can be a little sketchy, in my opinion.
#9) Even innocent peoples guns would be involved here. If I shoot someone in my home, they'll seize my gun. That serial number shouldn't be recorded into a data base, if I'm found innocent.
#11) Just another over paid gubment tool.
#16) This is going to cause people that need health care to be put into an unfair situation.
As far as the gun grab goes. This isn't over yet, you never know what these elected employees think they can get away with. We still have to deal with a long road of retardation ahead of us.
#9) Even innocent peoples guns would be involved here. If I shoot someone in my home, they'll seize my gun. That serial number shouldn't be recorded into a data base, if I'm found innocent.
#11) Just another over paid gubment tool.
#16) This is going to cause people that need health care to be put into an unfair situation.
As far as the gun grab goes. This isn't over yet, you never know what these elected employees think they can get away with. We still have to deal with a long road of retardation ahead of us.
Huh? Doctors can't actually do anything with that information except in one circumstance. The Affordable Health Care Act covers psychiatric treatment. Psychiatrists are required to report patients to the authorities if they pose a real and immediate threat. Asking a patient who has, say, violent fantasies whether or not they own or have access to a gun is... sort of pertinent. And it's not something that is forbidden now, which basically means this changes nothing.
Read what is being "done". There's pretty much nothing in that list. An ad campaign. Some research. Stating stuff that is already allowed just to state it so it looks like something is being done. Fill a position that's been vacant for years that they've been trying to shove someone in all this time anyway. And...? And what? You say it isn't over yet, but in reality it's tough to end something that hasn't even begun.
This is actually all talk and no action. (otherwise known as "business as usual" in Washington)
Seems fair to me.
Multiple topics are targetted : responsibilsing gun owners, make sure that people who ae not allowed to buy guns actually can't legally buy them, improve legislation over gun trafficking, improve the way mentally ill people are taking care of, improve security in schools, churches, etc...
Even if the ban on assault rifle isn't approuved by the Congress (I hope it will be but I highly doubt it will), these measures would be quite good answer, mostly because they don't focus only on guns.
Multiple topics are targetted : responsibilsing gun owners, make sure that people who ae not allowed to buy guns actually can't legally buy them, improve legislation over gun trafficking, improve the way mentally ill people are taking care of, improve security in schools, churches, etc...
Even if the ban on assault rifle isn't approuved by the Congress (I hope it will be but I highly doubt it will), these measures would be quite good answer, mostly because they don't focus only on guns.
Mayhem
Banned
This pretty much sums it up for me. A couple of mild question marks, but overall, I don't hate this.
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
Unfair because, what if the doctor reports that information he asked for from a patient, was meet with a refusal to answer? What if a person goes into the ER after being in a fight at a bar, and not realizing he's incriminating himself, tells the doctor he has guns at home? All I'm saying is, it opens the door for a very broad interpretation.... and most every doctor I've ever dealt with is very much against guns. It also seems odd to put gun questions in that sort of environment, why would a doctor need to know if I have guns, when I go in for a sprained ankle?
They still have a bunch of things they want to put through the Senate ans Congress. They aren't done yet, not by a long shot.
As far as that vacant position, how many tax dollars do you think that dimwit is going to make a year....plus beni's. We have to much government already. To many people making to much money, doing nothing more then giving people half assed information, performing a menial job, at twice what they should be paid, all because they knew someone, or affirmative action...and how do they treat the people that they serve...with attitude and disdain. So what, they'll appoint another Eric Holder...maybe the next guy will pull of the next Waco tragedy. Any excuse to make more REGULATIONS. I capitalized that because, laws have to be voted on...a regulation can be made by the person in charge, without answering to anyone but his boss.
Time will tell.
Then nothing.
You're reading into something where there's nothing to read into. There are no "added powers" here. There is nothing that can or could be done.
For instance...
Except you're not incriminating yourself because there's nothing criminal about having guns. The only reason to report something like that is if the patient posses a danger to himself or others. So unless the person says, "Yeah, I'm gonna go home grab my gun and shoot that mother fucker who busted my lip!" then there's no issue, and this changes nothing from how things work right now.
Except that it doesn't because there is literally no change here. Everything is functioning exactly as it always has. All that been done is "clarification" that the ACA doesn't change how things have always, and will still, work. Basically, nothing at all is being done.
There is no reason, and they wouldn't. The entire point of this is to remind the public that psychiatrists can and legally are required to report potentially dangerous individuals to the authorities and that the ACA doesn't change that. Basically this is Obama plugging the ACA and trying to soothe the public's growing fear of guns all at the same time. It's words without action. It's literally nothing except Obama giving himself a thumbs up for passing a health care bill.
Of course, but they also haven't started. Again, read through what's being put forward there. Out of all of those declarations none of them actual restrict anything that wasn't already restricted. It's 23 executive orders which basically boil down to, "Yeah, we're going to look at some stuff, and talk about some stuff, and do what we've always done, but hey... maybe we'll do it better from now on! So relax people!"
This is a job that already exists, and they've been trying to fill anyway. So yeah, it's no change. And really? One official? An insignificant amount when you consider it.
There are absolutely an asinine amount of relatively redundant enforcement agencies which lead to jurisdictional issues, people stepping on each others toes, and general tomfuckery, but that's not a problem with the executive orders as, again, they change nothing. That's a more fundamental problem. And of course nothing will be done about it since far too many people will pitch a fit if they see a reduction in law enforcement, even if it's only a perception of it and is in fact a restructuring in an attempt to increase efficiency. Really, it's not much different than military spending. We have military projects being funded which have never, and will never, yield any fruit quite simply because they looked good on paper when non-military personnel conceived of them. The upper echelons of the US Military are bloated, with generals doing work that could and should be handled by lower wage civilian workers. But can you find anyone who has the balls to actually suggest trying to handle all of the waste involved in military spending? Of course not, because no one wants to look "weak". Same thing with law enforcement. You reduce it significantly and you look weak on crime. You look weak on crime and the person you run against blasts non-stop TV ads about it at election time. Then you find yourself out of work.
xfire
New Twitter/X @cxffreeman
According to FBI statistics there were 47,856 people murdered by firearms in the United States between 2006-2010. Republicans responded with refusal to support any new legislation on guns and believe more guns are the best way to reduce gun violence.
Between 2000-2010 there were 649 million votes cast, with 13 reported cases of credible in-person voter fraud. Republicans responded with massive new legislation implemented throughout the voting process and passing Voter ID laws in almost every Republican controlled state, aimed at cracking down on "rampant voter fraud".
Between 2000-2010 there were 649 million votes cast, with 13 reported cases of credible in-person voter fraud. Republicans responded with massive new legislation implemented throughout the voting process and passing Voter ID laws in almost every Republican controlled state, aimed at cracking down on "rampant voter fraud".
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
It's a gun crack down and taking away more freedoms.
Petra
Cult Mother and Simpering Cunt
The mental healthcare part has some question marks for me.
Can one doctor declare a patient dangerous, or does there have to be a second or third opinion?
Most people go into the doctors office or their psychitriast/therapist under the impression they have confidentiality. What if they mention some sort of dream or fantasy, have no intention to act on it, but the doctor jumps the gun and reports them as dangerous??
Will there be a way for a patient to appeal a diagnosis of being declaired dangerous, or is this going to turn into a witch hunt?
Can one doctor declare a patient dangerous, or does there have to be a second or third opinion?
Most people go into the doctors office or their psychitriast/therapist under the impression they have confidentiality. What if they mention some sort of dream or fantasy, have no intention to act on it, but the doctor jumps the gun and reports them as dangerous??
Will there be a way for a patient to appeal a diagnosis of being declaired dangerous, or is this going to turn into a witch hunt?
alaredo
Banned
HMMM... Well, according to the CDC... There are roughly 80,000 Deaths each year attributed to Alcohol.
Liver issues, poisoning, drunk driving, etc. >>>> http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm
If everyone is interested in preserving life, then why dont we start there?
Seems like a far greater killer than Murders by firearm. I would be willing to bet that in the 47,856 deaths from firearms in that time period from 2006-2010, some involved law enforcement. The FBI likes to do that to inflate things.
I would also be willing to bet that some of those murders involving a firearm were by individuals who were Intoxicated by alcohol, OR perhaps another mind altering substance.
How about the mention of deaths by rifles in 2011...
That number was at 323 and that number included the deaths by rifles in the hands of law enforcement... not just high capacity assault style rifles either, but also standard bolt action style.
Even more people were murdered by hammers in 2011 than by rifles, but no one really talks about blaming Home Depot and Lowes... the number of Deaths by hammer in 2011 were at 496.
Now, lets consider how many people were murdered by 3 shots or less OR even by revolvers that dont have magazines, let alone high capacity magazines.
Limiting high capacity magazines is just ignorant thinking. When rarely, a high capacity magazine is ever emptied in a shooting.
The whole, concidered ban on assault rifles that people are worried about, was in regards to Lanza supposedly using one, even though eye witnesses stated it was a handgun and multiple shooters.
Not to mention the video of the police removing the assault rifle "in question" from the trunk of the vehicle lanza was driving.
Seems this issue with "assault style rifles" is being based on.... Well, Nothing much at all, actually.
How about the Drone attacks that have increased 6 fold since obama took office. How about the 176 children in Pakistan, alone, that died in drone attacks by the U.S.
How about the Countless others that were killed in Drone attacks by the U.S. ? Obama doesnt seem to have a problem with that.
More Than 120,000 People die every year in accidents alone... And that is any type of accident, just accidental deaths.
More than 38,000 people commit suicide every year.
Roughly 42 people died yesterday in car crashes related to drunk driving, and roughly another 42 today... Lets pray for the upcoming 42 tomorrow...
How about the 3,000+ abortion per day in the U.S. ? Although I guess that business is too profitable to put under the microscope....
Not That I agree or disagree with it, but it is a statistic, none the less, and that seems to be what everyone cares about.
Im all about choice, freedom of choice...
None of this REALLY matters though... These are all just Numbers. Us humans have been finding ways to destroy ourselves and other humans as long as we have been on this planet. Nothing Will change... Take One tool away, another will be used. Then of course the people who dont give a shit anyway, who will still use those "Forbidden Tools." Last time I checked, Criminals dont care much about control nor do they care about laws, And they seem to really like Shooting up all of the "Gun FREE" so called "safe zones."
Death by firearm doesnt even make it in the top ten of leading causes of death each year in the United States, And it never will...
The same polititians that get their panties in a twist over gun control, seem to have no issue with things like abortion or alcohol related deaths. They seem not to put much thought into drug related deaths either.
They dont talk about medical malpractice or death by prescription drugs... The FDA likes their money too much.
These polititians put on a fake "sad face" over 20 kids in a school to control 1 more thing in this country. AND That is what gun control is all about.... "CONTROL."
I am just asking for a little consistancy. If they "care" SOOO much about unnecessary deaths EVERY Year, then Lets see them focus on the Main Killers first and work their way down the list from there...
How many people die every year in war? Im thinking that is a pretty big killer...
As far as these executive orders are concerned... Its just the beginning.
Liver issues, poisoning, drunk driving, etc. >>>> http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm
If everyone is interested in preserving life, then why dont we start there?
Seems like a far greater killer than Murders by firearm. I would be willing to bet that in the 47,856 deaths from firearms in that time period from 2006-2010, some involved law enforcement. The FBI likes to do that to inflate things.
I would also be willing to bet that some of those murders involving a firearm were by individuals who were Intoxicated by alcohol, OR perhaps another mind altering substance.
How about the mention of deaths by rifles in 2011...
That number was at 323 and that number included the deaths by rifles in the hands of law enforcement... not just high capacity assault style rifles either, but also standard bolt action style.
Even more people were murdered by hammers in 2011 than by rifles, but no one really talks about blaming Home Depot and Lowes... the number of Deaths by hammer in 2011 were at 496.
Now, lets consider how many people were murdered by 3 shots or less OR even by revolvers that dont have magazines, let alone high capacity magazines.
Limiting high capacity magazines is just ignorant thinking. When rarely, a high capacity magazine is ever emptied in a shooting.
The whole, concidered ban on assault rifles that people are worried about, was in regards to Lanza supposedly using one, even though eye witnesses stated it was a handgun and multiple shooters.
Not to mention the video of the police removing the assault rifle "in question" from the trunk of the vehicle lanza was driving.
Seems this issue with "assault style rifles" is being based on.... Well, Nothing much at all, actually.
How about the Drone attacks that have increased 6 fold since obama took office. How about the 176 children in Pakistan, alone, that died in drone attacks by the U.S.
How about the Countless others that were killed in Drone attacks by the U.S. ? Obama doesnt seem to have a problem with that.
More Than 120,000 People die every year in accidents alone... And that is any type of accident, just accidental deaths.
More than 38,000 people commit suicide every year.
Roughly 42 people died yesterday in car crashes related to drunk driving, and roughly another 42 today... Lets pray for the upcoming 42 tomorrow...
How about the 3,000+ abortion per day in the U.S. ? Although I guess that business is too profitable to put under the microscope....
Not That I agree or disagree with it, but it is a statistic, none the less, and that seems to be what everyone cares about.
Im all about choice, freedom of choice...
None of this REALLY matters though... These are all just Numbers. Us humans have been finding ways to destroy ourselves and other humans as long as we have been on this planet. Nothing Will change... Take One tool away, another will be used. Then of course the people who dont give a shit anyway, who will still use those "Forbidden Tools." Last time I checked, Criminals dont care much about control nor do they care about laws, And they seem to really like Shooting up all of the "Gun FREE" so called "safe zones."
Death by firearm doesnt even make it in the top ten of leading causes of death each year in the United States, And it never will...
The same polititians that get their panties in a twist over gun control, seem to have no issue with things like abortion or alcohol related deaths. They seem not to put much thought into drug related deaths either.
They dont talk about medical malpractice or death by prescription drugs... The FDA likes their money too much.
These polititians put on a fake "sad face" over 20 kids in a school to control 1 more thing in this country. AND That is what gun control is all about.... "CONTROL."
I am just asking for a little consistancy. If they "care" SOOO much about unnecessary deaths EVERY Year, then Lets see them focus on the Main Killers first and work their way down the list from there...
How many people die every year in war? Im thinking that is a pretty big killer...
As far as these executive orders are concerned... Its just the beginning.
Mayhem
Banned
I believe that it's already a law that a doctor has to report a patient if they state the intent to commit a crime. Understand that I'm getting that off of TV shows, so I could be wrong.
You're raising many valid points. This is going to be a mess and the various courts, all the way up to the Supreme Court, are going to have a lot to deal with.
It's not a one-man-show. You're looking at petitions, a magistrate being involved, and being remanded for observation and examination at a mental health facility, and if there's call potentially committal and treatment.
As far as doctor-patient privilege, it really depends on what state you're in. At the federal level it does not exist.
Petra
Cult Mother and Simpering Cunt
You're right that there is no federal statute for this, however, I forsee that depending on what is eventually passed through congress, could end up being violations of a person's 4th and 5th amendment. I also forsee several cases of 4th and 5th amendment right violations going to the supreme court. Will be interesting to say the least.
And the process? We'll have to wait and see what passes, of course, but I don't think it's going to be very extensive. I think it's going to be the family doctor or therapist reporting the person and they end up on the firearm version of the no fly list.
It's going to be an interesting balancing act, however, I see great potential of this becoming the Minority Report coming to life.
bobjustbob
Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
Most of the things advocated that are cut and dry I don't have a problem with. Registrations of each transaction, criminal background checks, purchases of registered safes, safety courses. All are okay. Databases can easily be set up for all of these things. I don't want my gun being traced back to me for any crime.
When we get to the mental health parts there looks to be a growing place for wiggle room that the government can take advantage of. I'm not talking about the people that are clearly bat shit in their minds. It's how far will the mental health community reach to exercise on the side of caution. The medical community does it today. Visit your doctor with a cold and he will send you to a specialist. Get another examination and will run you through a battery of tests. He may send you to the hospital for observations. When you get out they tell you that you have a cold and write you a script. All to save their own asses because that's what the government and issuance companies demand.
When we get to the mental health parts there looks to be a growing place for wiggle room that the government can take advantage of. I'm not talking about the people that are clearly bat shit in their minds. It's how far will the mental health community reach to exercise on the side of caution. The medical community does it today. Visit your doctor with a cold and he will send you to a specialist. Get another examination and will run you through a battery of tests. He may send you to the hospital for observations. When you get out they tell you that you have a cold and write you a script. All to save their own asses because that's what the government and issuance companies demand.
twat36975248664224
Closed Account
I hope you realize that there hasn't been a official director of the ATF in over 6yrs and the active director has a full time job in the mid-west. So number 11 isn't a bunch of crap.
Sam Fisher
Banned
We all end up like fish in a barrel... well, except you, your wife, and your children. Thanks, you black Muslim mother fucker!
meesterperfect
Hiliary 2020
Quoting Madonna are we?
larss
I'm watching some specialist videos
We all end up like fish in a barrel... well, except you, your wife, and your children. Thanks, you black Muslim mother fucker!
USA - Firearm related death rate in 2010 was 102 per million of population. Made up of 36 Homicide 63 Suicide 2 Unintentional 1 Undetermined.
UK - Firearm related death rate in 2011 was 2.5 per million of population. Made up of 0.4 Homicide 1.7 Suicide 0.2 Unintentional 0.1 Undetermined.
Instead of filling the barrel with guns, try reinforcing the barrel, you inbred racist piece of arrogant white trash.
Sam Fisher
Banned
I thought guns weren't allowed in the UK. How then, was it possible to have gun-related deaths in the UK?
Tell that to the school where the president's daughters attend. However, you just don't get it do you? Let me say it once more for you very S......L.....O......W......L......Y, so that you might graps the message concerning the fish barrel ---- The gist of the fish barrel represents the idea that a GUN FREE ZONE make it a safe zone. However... show me a criminal who obeys laws. In other words, only the LAW ABIDING CITIZEN will NOT bring a gun onto school property. Where as a criminal DOESN'T adhere to laws, period! Hence.... the children are basically..... fish in a barrel.
Nice calm, intelligent response there, Larss. You're debates don't last long do they?
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