This is Boomer thinking. Maybe this was true for our parents generation but it certainly doesn't ring true for my generation (Millennials). In my case it's the opposite. I've gotten more liberal as I've gotten older. I'm more liberal now at 30 than I was at 20. 30 year old me would call 20 year old me an establishment, centrist, corporatist liberal. Boomers always said you'll become conservative when you get your first paycheck and you see how much $ the government takes from you. Yeah I agree the government takes alot of my $. But I look at it a different way. I see all that $ taken out and I don't know where the hell it goes. But if you're going to take all that $ from me can it at least go towards my healthcare? Can it at least go towards my student loans? Can it at least go towards paying rent? I'm more liberal now because I don't have much time left. I turn 31 in March. I'm closer to 40 than I am 20. I don't have time for the Democrats and their incrementalism. I need Medicare for All. Right Now. I need student loan relief. Right now. I need the Green New Deal. Right now.
-
Hey, guys! FreeOnes Tube is up and running - see for yourself!
-
FreeOnes Now Listing Male and Trans Performers! More info here!
More Conservative As You Age?
- Thread starter Straight Shooter
- Start date
gmase
Nattering Nabob of Negativism
[In my mid 50s] I've either moderated since my 30s or the right has gone farther right. Hard to tell.
What does student loan relief mean to those of us who have paid cash to send our kids to college? At $100k per kid over four years it is by no means a small investment (especially when one has 3). My fiscal responsibility is therefore penalized when the debts are forgiven.
Where does tax money go? Do you drive on roads? Do you see libraries, schools (k-12, colleges), fire departments, police (agree with them or not they are there), etc. in your local community? If we all wanted to keep the tax money, where do they get funds? The fire department could charge $5k per house call. Cal 9-1-1 and get a $25 bill. Childless couples wouldn't want to provide for schools which help the community. Taxes may not go to your CURRENT situation (e.g., pay, healthcare), but it is intended to be there for your future when you retire.
Plus, all of the stuff you want now - medicare for all, student loan relief, and a Green New Deal - would all be paid by .... taxes. Can I opt out of paying for them?
What does student loan relief mean to those of us who have paid cash to send our kids to college? At $100k per kid over four years it is by no means a small investment (especially when one has 3). My fiscal responsibility is therefore penalized when the debts are forgiven.
Where does tax money go? Do you drive on roads? Do you see libraries, schools (k-12, colleges), fire departments, police (agree with them or not they are there), etc. in your local community? If we all wanted to keep the tax money, where do they get funds? The fire department could charge $5k per house call. Cal 9-1-1 and get a $25 bill. Childless couples wouldn't want to provide for schools which help the community. Taxes may not go to your CURRENT situation (e.g., pay, healthcare), but it is intended to be there for your future when you retire.
Plus, all of the stuff you want now - medicare for all, student loan relief, and a Green New Deal - would all be paid by .... taxes. Can I opt out of paying for them?
If someone was drowning out at sea and got rescued, would you complain because you didn't get a boat ride too? If you've managed to put 3 kids through university at $100k a pop, I'd say you're doing pretty well, and maybe you could stand to focus a little less on what's in it for you and a little more on how others might get the same opportunities you had.
Modern conservatism relies heavily on the belief that everyone has the same means and opportunities, and that simple bad luck, like an illness or accident, or an aspect of your circumstance, like being a certain race or living in a certain area, isn't enough to completely derail a life. If you can convince yourself that everyone else could be where you are if they'd just worked as hard and not made bad decisions then it makes it a whole lot easier to kick down, as the right are so fond of doing.
The "boomer thinking" comment is a pretty big can of worms. I think that this extreme far rightism we're seeing now has a lot to do with them. No generation has ever had it easier than the boomers, and in my opinion no generation has ever been as selfish and entitled. They were given every privilege and managed to close every door behind them.
I feel similar to you Shooter, when I was young I leaned right (by world standards, not American standards), but the older I get, the more compassion and understanding I have for others who are doing less well than I am. I've learned that you can work your ass off and not make any bad decisions and still struggle, and I don't understand how anyone who has ever had to struggle themselves can still support the cruelty and indifference of the right.
gmase
Nattering Nabob of Negativism
You Misinterpreted a reasonable portion of my comment. I support taxes which go to medicare, medicaid, social security, local services, etc. The OP stated he wanted to control where his tax dollars went and use them for himself. That is actually conservatism at it's finest - keep and control all of your earnings. Liberalism is using tax dollars to support programs for the public good.
I did not say I want to control where my tax dollars go. I simply explained that I have a different perspective when it comes to taxation. Whereas conservatives rail against too much taxation, I'm fine with it. In fact you could tax me even more as long as you use that $ to give all of us(not just me) healthcare.
One of the ways that Medicare is funded is by a payroll tax. $ is taken every week from your paycheck to fund Medicare. Medicare for All would work the same exact way(albeit the payroll tax would increase slightly). So how can you support Medicare but not Medicare For All? If I'm misunderstanding your position please correct me. I don't want to put words in your mouth the same way you did to me...
And on the issue of student loans...Whenever student loan relief is talked about the common response is that it's unfair to those who managed to pay back their loans. That's like saying you don't support finding a cure for cancer because it would be unfair to all those that had to suffer through chemo. If in 20 years from now they manage to pass student loan relief, I'm going to be just fine with it.(Although I wish they would have done it sooner). Because I want the next generation to do better. I'm just not the type of person who wants other people to suffer just because they themselves had to suffer. But to each their own I guess
gmase
Nattering Nabob of Negativism
You now say "I did not say I want to control where my tax dollars go."
Please re-read what you originally posted. "But if you're going to take all that $ from me can it at least go towards my healthcare? Can it at least go towards my student loans?" You used 'my healthcare' and 'my student loans'. Sorry if I misinterpreted.
You Misinterpreted my final statement which was loosely worded on my part - I see your point. I was not stating I am against those items per se, but using them to illustrate the concept of opting out of paying for certain programs. To be honest, I'm onboard with healthcare for all and portions of the GND.
As for student debt relief, I'd rather tackle the cost of tuition at public universities in order for students to graduate with a more reasonable debt load.
I think any reasonable plan would have to package the 2 together. It would also have to address the absurd interest rates charged on student loans, and make income based payment the standard. In Australia, when you start work for an employer you check a box in your paperwork if you have student loans and the payments are taken as additional tax, depending on how much you earn.
It would be a tough sell in the USA because, similar to private health insurance, there's way too much money to be made in raping people in need.
gmase
Nattering Nabob of Negativism
That makes sense.
FOUser#4510856320198a
BANNED
Or you could pay the loan according to the terms of the loan agreement THAT YOU SIGNED.
Quit crying, and pay your own student loans like all the grownups did before you, cupcakes.
gmase
Nattering Nabob of Negativism
Contract law must not be a required course for some degrees.
The amount of cash universities are getting for anticipated low- to mid-wage jobs is alarming. I heard one news report last year of a social worker taking out 6 digits worth of loans to get a masters degree. She was complaining about the low-wage environment of such positions. It is easier to ask others to pay than to actually do a cost-benefit analysis upfront. [Although demand in some locations may be increasing in the near future.]
gmase
Nattering Nabob of Negativism
What does it mean to be conservative? We all probably have a different view, but it is broadly defined as "a person who is averse to change and holds to traditional values and attitudes, typically in relation to politics."
We look back at the founding generation (1774 - 1789) and use them as the base for conservatism. They were liberals/radicals who wanted to upend society. Since then there has been an almost constant battle to expand the radicalization (i.e., rights for women, African-Americans, Native Americans, et al.). Post-war conservatives have not been monolithic: Eisenhower, Goldwater, Nixon, Reagan, Bush 41 & 43, and Trump.
Is being conservative just believing what the Republican says to believe?
We look back at the founding generation (1774 - 1789) and use them as the base for conservatism. They were liberals/radicals who wanted to upend society. Since then there has been an almost constant battle to expand the radicalization (i.e., rights for women, African-Americans, Native Americans, et al.). Post-war conservatives have not been monolithic: Eisenhower, Goldwater, Nixon, Reagan, Bush 41 & 43, and Trump.
Is being conservative just believing what the Republican says to believe?
Only morons never change their mind...
Because Macron voters are that intelligent? No, they aren't Or because people who voted for socialists such as Mitterand or Hollande were that intelligent? No they weren't. Please keep the insults elsewhere. Socialists and centrists leaders in France have proven more than many times what kind of fools and incompetent tools they were. Voting for stateless leaders who knee in front of Brussels European commission and who validate the most stupid laws, I don't call that being very bright. Has the Europe of 27 made France a richer country? On the contrary, it has made it poorer because of the several decisions made by Brussels which were against the interest of the sovereignty and the interests of France.
FOUser#4510856320198a
BANNED
That sounds about right.
Panicked hyberbole and hand-wringing kvetching. From a pathetic land of defeatists, cowards, and appeasers, you busily criticize the US president while your own garbage, declining nation swirls the drain, bending over for Mohammed's invading hordes.
Yeah, sounds about right.
Maybe you should look at "changing" your minds.
I did change my mind, many times, on many issues.
I used to think legalizing marijuana would be a terrible mistake. No I'm for legalizing it.
I used to be a christian (roman catholic to be specific). Now I consider myself an atheist
I used to support the death penalty for the most horribles crimes (terrorism, pedophilia, hate motivated murder, etc...). Now I'm 100% against it
I used to thhink Republicans were good principled people. Now I know they are racists, hypocrites and that they would gladly give up democracy for tyranny if the tyran share their views.
I used to think legalizing marijuana would be a terrible mistake. No I'm for legalizing it.
I used to be a christian (roman catholic to be specific). Now I consider myself an atheist
I used to support the death penalty for the most horribles crimes (terrorism, pedophilia, hate motivated murder, etc...). Now I'm 100% against it
I used to thhink Republicans were good principled people. Now I know they are racists, hypocrites and that they would gladly give up democracy for tyranny if the tyran share their views.
Last edited:
Similar threads
