http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ple-just-one-writer-claims.html#ixzz3WFTKpjWW'Jesus is a MYTH': Christ stories appeared decades after his 'death' - and he was probably many people rather than just one, atheist writer claims
Atheist writer David Fitzgerald claims there is no evidence Jesus existed
The San Francisco based author instead says Jesus was a literary allegory created by combining old Jewish stories and rituals along with rival cults
He insists it is time to stop believing in Jesus Christ as a historical figure
Jesus Christ was not a real person and is probably the result of a combination of stories about several different individuals, according to a writer and leading atheist activist.
David Fitzgerald, a San Francisco based author, believes he has compiled compelling evidence that proves Jesus did not exist.
He claims there are no contemporary mentions of Jesus in historical accounts from the time when he was supposed to have lived, yet other Jewish sect leaders from the time do appear.
Instead he insists the disciples of Jesus were also probably not real and their names only later attached to the gospels to lend them credence.
In a new book due to be published later this year, he will argue that the figure of Jesus was actually a combination of pagan rituals and stories about other people.
Speaking to MailOnline, he said: 'There is a paradox that Jesus did all these amazing things and taught all these amazing things yet no one heard of him outside his immediate cult for nearly 100 years.
'Or it means he didn't do all these things at all.
'The first gospel of Christianity appears to have been a literary allegory that were written decades after the time they portray.
'I believe that Christianity started as one of the many mystery faiths that appeared at the time where old Gods and old traditions were rebooted.
'Christianity appears to have been a Jewish mystery faith.
'By the time of Paul there appears to have been plenty of different "Lord's suppers" as he complains about the existence of other gospels and messiahs.
'It appears that early Christianity managed to take the stories from these other faiths and incorporate them into the story of Jesus.'
Mr Fitzgerald, whose first book 'Nailed: Ten Christian Myths that Show Jesus Never Existed at All' was published in 2010, believes it is no longer reasonable to assume there has to be a single historic figure who began Christianity.
Instead he says early Christians drew upon the beliefs and rituals of other cults and faiths around in the first century.
He argues that John the Baptist's cult is one such example and had initially been a competitor to the cult of Jesus before being incorporated into the Christian story.
Mr Fitzgerald said: 'There is nothing implausible to think that Jesus was a real person, but I just don't think that he can have been a single person if he existed at all.
'We also have no mention of Jesus in other historical texts from the time. There were certainly people writing about Judea at the time like Philo of Alexandria.
'During this period there were many other messiahs and wannabe messiahs who did far less exciting things than Jesus, but all of them managed something Jesus did not - to make a dent on the historical record.
'Two billion people believe all these miracles happened yet there is no evidence they did.'
The earliest mention of Jesus yet to be discovered is a limestone ossuary on which the words 'James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus' is inscribed.
The box, which has been dated to 64AD - several decades after the crucifixion - was seized by the Israeli Antiquities Authority and its owner arrested for forgery in 2003.
Although he was later cleared in 2012, doubts about the authenticity of the inscription remain.
Others have said there could have been several people named James, whose father was called Joseph and had a brother called Jesus living in Jerusalem at the time.
There are three mentions of Jesus in non-Christian sources which have been used to research the existence of a 'real' Jesus.
A Jesus is mentioned in Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, which was written around 94 AD.
Roman historian Tacitus later mentions Christ and his execution with Pontius Pilate in his Annals, thought to be written around 116AD.
Both mentions were a considerable time after his alleged execution.
Mr Fritzgerald also takes issue with many of the stories about the Crucifixion that stem from the first Gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke.
He said: 'There are many examples of inconsistencies in the gospels that suggest they were written by people who did not live in Judea at the time they are set.
'Mark makes many mistakes about life and geography during the first century in Judea.
'If Jesus really had been arrested on the eve of Passover, they would probably have just put him in jail and tried him after the weekend.
'The trial itself violates the rules of Jewish law - why was he not stoned?
'What we know about Pontius Pilate also suggests he was someone who would not do what the Jews asked him and would often do what they asked him not to.
'Instead Mark portrays him as being persuaded by the Jewish leaders to execute him.'
Mr Fitzgerald argues that many of these stories were in fact incorporated into the story of Christ as literary devices rather than as a historical account.
He said: 'There is also no evidence for the tradition that sees Barabbas - an anti-Roman rebel and murderer - being released while Jesus, an innocent, is condemned to death.
'What this actually seems to be is Mark using the story as an allegory for the Yom Kippur scapegoat ritual where one goat is released into the wilderness and the other is sacrificed for God.'
Mr Fitzgerald hopes to have his new book 'Jesus: Mything in Action' out later this year.
He added: 'It still puzzles me that as soon as anyone tries to pin down who Jesus is we get 50 different Jesus's emerging. There is no consensus.'
NO MENTION OF JESUS IN HISTORY
Historical researcher Michael Paulkovich has claimed that Jesus of Nazareth did not exist after being unable to find any verifiable mention of Christ in historical texts by 126 writers during the ‘time of Jesus’ from the first to third centuries.
He claims that he is a fictional character invented by followers of Christianity to create a figure to worship.
He says this is surprising despite his ‘global miracles and alleged worldwide fame.’
The 126 texts he studied were all written in the period during or soon after the supposed existence of Jesus, when Paulkovich says they would surely have heard of someone as famous as Jesus - but none mention him.
'When I consider those 126 writers, all of whom should have heard of Jesus but did not - and Paul and Marcion and Athenagoras and Matthew with a tetralogy of opposing Christs, the silence from Qumram and Nazareth and Bethlehem, conflicting Bible stories, and so many other mysteries and omissions - I must conclude that Christ is a mythical character,’ he writes.
‘"Jesus of Nazareth" was nothing more than urban (or desert) legend, likely an agglomeration of several evangelic and deluded rabbis who might have existed.’
WAS JESUS A MIDDLE-CLASS ARCHITECT (IF HE EXISTED)?
Rather than being born in a stable to a carpenter father, Jesus was actually the son of a successful, middle-class and highly intellectual architect.
This claim comes from biblical scholar Dr Adam Bradford, who also says that between the ages of 12 and 30 - the so-called 'missing years' of Jesus' life, when little is known about him - he was studying at religious schools and became the highest-ranking rabbi in Judea.
The radical revision of Christian history would suggest that, in preaching the spurning of worldly possessions for an austere life, Jesus may have been speaking from experience.
Dr Bradford has analysed the Bible's original Greek and Hebrew scriptures to try to establish the truth about Christ's background.
He says a mistranslation of the Greek word 'tekton' to describe the profession of Joseph, Jesus's father, is one of many mistakes that have led to a fundamental misunderstanding of Christ's character.
Dr Bradford claims that while 'tekton' is usually said to mean carpenter, it more accurately means master builder or architect. As an architect, Joseph would have had a higher social status that enabled him to better educate his son.
Jesus = several persons ?
- Thread starter Johan
- Start date
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
There are many writings from the time, saying Jesus did exist.
This guy needs to find a real job.
Skeptics Desperately Try To Deny Jesus Ever Existed Despite Ancient Secular Historical Records Link
The most credible datas from that time were the datas that the roman bureaucracy kep in there archoives. From what I've heard, there are 3 entries that could be linked to the Bible and the Gospel :
1) Joseph and Mary had come to Bethleem for the roman census, from what I've heard the are mention of them in the roman archives. We can be sure that this particular Joseph is the Joseph of the Bible 'cause Joseph was a descendant of David.
2) The Roman archives mention a preacher called Jesus and the fact that there's some kind of buzz about him in the population, particulary among the poors.
3) The archives also mention the crucifiction of 3 men a day after the celebration of Passover (which match with the Gospel since the Last Supper was on the day of Passover).
But nowhere in these archives there's any clue about the fact thar the Jesus that was executed was the reacher that is mention earlier and that he was related to the Joseph and Mary that got registered in Bethleem about 30-35 years earlier
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
So, what do you give a fuck? You don't believe, you mock those that do, and chastise anyone that has even the most remote criticisms of islam.
Personally, I think you're a Christaphobe, not to mention one of the bigger fucking hypocrites I've ever interacted with...and I don't mean just on this board.
I don't give a fuck about what you think but if you think you can silence me by calling me names, you're gonna be very disapointed because that's the kind of things that makes me post even more anti-religous stuff, particulary anti-christian stuff since most of the critics I receive come from christians.
Little Red Wagon Repairman
MFOMBSoPGA
You never know. I take my leaps of faith these days in baby steps. The reason why I am Christian is because my mommy and daddy were and I was too lazy and not suspicious enough to change course. If Heaven exists and there is a path I think the path is living a decent life and being good to those around you. If God does exist I don't believe he is tyrannical and to be feared unless Satan created everything for his amusement enjoying our insecurity and voluntary submission.
True. But you don't need religion to be a good person. This is why religious people would tell you that being good isn't enough, you also gotta believe and pray.
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
That's pretty fucking funny. You have called MANY people islamaphobes...but if you put the word Christ in front of it, I'm calling you "names"?!?! You have called people on this forum, "hypocrites"....but I guess in the context you used it in, it wasn't "name calling".
Seriously, if you really think being called a hypocrite, or Christian, or Christaphobe, being "named called", you really, REALLY, have issues. I mean....you need to spend HOURS on a couch, hugging a stuffed animal, while pouring out all of your childhood problems to a mental health care professional, kind of problems.
Oh, by the way, the fact that you posted, what you posted, makes my point about the level of hypocrisy you've achieved. Thank you.
And just because........In Nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti
Little Red Wagon Repairman
MFOMBSoPGA
Thanks. I forgot to add that. I was being open-minded considering there is a possibility of Heaven since nothing has been proven in either direction. I think Atheism is a leap of faith also. As for me and religion, I don't know my asshole from my elbow on what the truth is. I was taught to memorize and recite only. I did get out of the corral before I was sheered too bad. Did suffer a few nicks that may torment me later in life unfortunately.
Sounds like you're an advocate of Pascal's Wager
Little Red Wagon Repairman
MFOMBSoPGA
I ain't know who that fucker is but I checked Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager
OK, after reading that I'm still not sure.
As far as religion I'd rather be unsure than certain as the journey of learning continues and evolves. The staunch believers in my family are the first to throw a fit about being questioned about their faith. They appear to be more vulnerable than unshakable.
Deepcover
Closed Account
You mean Trinity. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit
"His celebrated "wager" puts it in hucksterish form: what have you got to lose? If you believe in God and there is a god, you win. If you believe in him and you are wrong-so what? I once wrote a response to this cunning piece of bet-covering, which took two forms. The first was a version of Bertrand Russell's hypothetical reply to the hypothetical question: what will you say if you die and are confronted with your maker? His response? "I should say, Oh God, you did not give us enough evidence." My own reply : Imponderable Sir, I presume from some if not all of your many reputations that You Might prefer honest and convinced unbelief to your hypothetical and self-interested affectation of faith or the smoking tributes of bloody altars. But I would not count on it."
-Christopher Hitchens. 'God is not Great'
TheProcrastinator
Closed Account
Well there's something I never thought I'd see on these forums.
@OP: Even as an atheist, I tend to be immensely sceptical of the "Jesus never existed at all!" crowd. To me, Jesus existing as a religious teacher and then dying on a cross is not something I have any problem accepting as likely; it's more the bit where there's no evidence outside the Gospels of that Jesus doing any of the miraculous/divine stuff the Gospels credit him with.
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
What's that, or Latin, or ME using Latin?
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
There's a slight difference between telling he never existed and telling there wasn't one but several Jesus. The "religious teacher Jesus" you mention is the Roman archives. The Jesus that died on a cross as well. But nothing indicates that they were the same person.
The old times were full of preachers, prophets, etc. who all had their followers.
TheProcrastinator
Closed Account
Neither; it's the content of the Latin. "In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit" isn't the sort of phrase I instinctively associate with these forums.
True; obviously the reason that preacher-Jesus went on his preaching exercise in the first place was that first-century Judaea was in a state of religious and political turmoil (with the best-known examples of that being the Zealots and the war in the AD 60s-70s). I suppose the idea of separate Jesii is one that, while it isn't AFAIK any more supported by the evidence than the idea of one Jesus, does make sense as a theory.
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