Isreal - Breaking the silence

[GodsEmbryo]

Israel will sell itself to the world as a nation of poor Jews who had to suffer so many things in history. And now they have their promessed land they still are provoked and shot by this "evil" Hamas and other "evil Arab scum". On television they will show you how military operations are carefully planned where they drop pamphlets first to warn the innocent civilions so they can target the "terrorists". In reality Israel is a fascist state that is as much to blame for the madness that is going on in the middle east. While in the US people get upset with the violence police uses and the killings by police on blacks, nobody from Israel biggest ally seems to give a fuck about attrocities made by the Israel Defence Forces. After all Israel is an ally, and muslims are terrorists, right?

Breaking the Silence is an organization of veteran combatants who have served in the Israeli military since the start of the Second Intifada and have taken it upon themselves to expose the Israeli public to the reality of everyday life in the Occupied Territories. They further state on their website that they endeavor to stimulate public debate about the price paid for a reality in which young soldiers face a civilian population on a daily basis, and are engaged in the control of that population’s everyday life.

I don't expect many people to react on this thread. After all ignorance is bliss. But reading through many of these testimonies and articles published on their website, it's making me mad and disappointed that the West usually points their finger to the usual suspects. I gathered some random quotes in the hope that people will fucking open their minds and start to realize the story isn't as black and white as they think it is.

Source: Breaking the silence

The assignment in Susiya was my first encounter with a reality I hadn’t known about before. I grew up in the occupied territories, encountering more Palestinians in my life than the average Israeli does. But it was during my service in the West Bank that I realized I really had no idea what was going on. From our first days on assignment, it became clear to us that we were not there to protect the settlers from the Palestinians, but rather to protect the Palestinians from the settlers. That is certainly not what the civilian security coordinator told us, but that is essentially what we did in practice.

A Palestinian woman and children pass the slogan “Gas the Arabs! JDL” spray-painted on an exterior wall of the Cordoba School
for Palestinian children near Shuhada Street, Hebron, October 22, 2012. “JDL” stands for Jewish Defense League, an extremist group founded by
Meir Kahane and designated as a terrorist group by the FBI. The US born Baruch Goldstein was a charter member of the JDL, which has designated him “a martyr
in Judaism’s protracted struggle against Arab terrorism.” Goldstein opened fire on praying Palestinians in 1994, killing 29, and injuring 125.​

We entered a neighborhood with orchards, which is the scariest. There were lots of stories going around about being surprised by tunnels or explosive devices in these orchards. When you go in you fire at lots of suspicious places. You shoot at bushes, at trees, at all sorts of houses you suddenly run into, at more trees. You fire a blast and don’t think twice about it. When we first entered [the Gaza Strip] there was this ethos about Hamas – we were certain that the moment we went in our tanks would all be up in flames. But after 48 hours during which no one shoots at you and they’re like ghosts, unseen, their presence unfelt – except once in a while the sound of one shot fired over the course of an entire day – you come to realize the situation is under control. And that’s when my difficulty there started, because the formal rules of engagement – I don’t know if for all soldiers – were, “Anything still there is as good as dead. Anything you see moving in the neighborhoods you’re in is not supposed to be there. The [Palestinian] civilians know they are not supposed to be there. Therefore whoever you see there, you kill.”

Nowadays, we're afraid to enter a house. It's not like in the West Bank, any force can be targeted, and because of this fear, a D-9 is brought along, it's bullet-proof, and it digs a ditch all around, 360 degrees. It's like an anti-tank ditch. It breaks a hole in the house wall with its shovel… Sounds like it's breaking a door in, but actually it's breaking the whole wall. This break takes place while the people are still inside.

What do you mean? I can be sitting at home and… you're talking about the home of a terrorist? A wanted man?
No, not a wanted man, a house. That you need to take over because you've decided it's strategically situated.

Hebron… the Mitkanim base and Tel Rumeida are inside Hebron, and outside of Hebron there was another post. They would really rip the city apart. Sight unseen. Illogically… Never ask any questions. Once they really ripped at it all night. Shot like crazy. The next morning no one understood what was going on. The whole porch was full of empty cartridges. Like people finished up a month's ammo supply. The brigade commander arrived, nothing special really. All that had triggered it were two shots at the house from town. No hits even, and this whole floor is covered with cartridges. And the brigade commander sees this and doesn't ask, "What the hell were you shooting at?" These bullets went somewhere. These things are simply tolerated. Where did all those bullets go… The commanders, too, no one raised questions like, "All that shooting was for nothing? What were you doing firing a whole month's ammo supply in one single night?" And they shot just for the hell of it. Not targeting. Nothing. This is something you don't do. When you're afraid. . .People just shot and shot. I saw that in the story you tried… Because it's a game. Just a game.

And if a tank-post is fired at?
Depends on when, depends on the commander. There were all kinds of open-fire instructions. Some were strict, some less strict. Sometimes they were authorized by the brigade commander, sometimes by the company commander, sometimes by an officer. Sometimes people would simply fire and report about that they were firing, hey, all's well. With us it didn't happen often, but I saw people around us doing it, all kinds of other corps.

You saw people around you shot at and return accurate fire?
Not necessarily shot at. They just fired, no reason, then reported it like it was a proper thing. Hey, if the firing is a proper thing, then it's a proper thing.

[About arresting children] Unfortunately it didn’t surprise me. I can say that as a soldier who served also in Hebron as a combat soldier between 2007 until 2010, I took part several times in arrests like this. I think what people need to understand is that … soldiers look at Palestinians in the way not as at human beings. In that way they also won’t look at them as at children or teenagers… As a soldier who served…in the Occupied Territories, I can say that when you need to arrest someone, that is the order you were given, you would arrest him, you would detain him, you would handcuff him. It doesn’t matter if he is 8-years old, 25-years old, 50 or 60. The order is very clear - if you need to arrest him or detain him, then you do it. If he is 10-years old you would also do it. After a while you stop looking at people as people, you stop looking at children as children, you stop looking at teenagers as teenagers, you look at them just as at Palestinians, just as at people that can always potentially be terrorists.

[...] There is no doubt that we are trying to show to the Israeli public and to the international community that we keep on choosing day after day to control millions of people. Once you do that, and I can say again from my own personal experience and after I had hundreds of testimonies, that this is how it works. You cannot control people without force, you cannot take people’s liberty and freedom without them resisting you and then arresting them, and then we can see images and videos just like we have seen in the last few days. This is how the occupation works; it cannot be quiet, it cannot be symbolic, it cannot be non-violent because my definition - it is a violent structure.

When we first entered [the Gaza Strip], when we took over houses, there was this thing of ‘provoking’ the area. If you’re standing for hours and the tank is idle, you don’t start driving back and forth. There’s no comparison between a tank that’s in motion and a tank that’s idle. An idle tank is 1,000 times more vulnerable, and you can’t just drive around for seven hours if you’re stationed at a certain building. So once in a while there were steps we would take to ‘provoke’ the area. What does that mean? It means machine gun fire at ‘suspicious spots.’

There were times we were told, “You see that building? That’s a school, don’t shoot there. And that over there is the Gaza amusement park – one can see the Ferris wheel from a distance – we don’t shoot at it.” But everything else that they didn’t specifically instruct us to avoid shooting at – and except for a few other places, where nearby [IDF] forces were located to avoid friendly fire – you could shoot anywhere, nearly freely. There are also times when we said, “Let’s fire over there, worst case they’ll ask what we shot at, we’ll say it was a ‘suspicious spot,’ that it looked threatening.” That happened a few times.

On the day the fellow from our company was killed, the commanders came up to us and told us what happened. Then they decided to fire an ‘honor barrage’ and fire three shells. They said, “This is in memory of ****.” That felt very out of line to me, very problematic.

A barrage of what?
A barrage of shells. They fired the way it’s done in funerals, but with shellfire and at houses. Not into the air. They just chose [a house] – the tank commander said, “Just pick the farthest one, so it does the most damage.” Revenge of sorts. So we fired at one of the houses. Really you just see a block of houses in front of you, so the distance doesn’t really matter.

I’m thinking about that poor family whose rooftop was turned into a public bathroom by the entire company, what an awful thing.

During the entire operation the [tank] drivers had this thing of wanting to run over cars – because the driver, he can’t fire. He doesn’t have any weapon, he doesn’t get to experience the fun in its entirety, he just drives forward, backward, right, left. And they had this sort of crazy urge to run over a car. I mean, a car that’s in the street, a Palestinian car, obviously. And there was one time that my [tank’s] driver, a slightly hyperactive guy, managed to convince the tank’s officer to run over a car, and it was really not that exciting– you don’t even notice you’re going over a car, you don’t feel anything – we just said on the two-way radio: “We ran over the car. How was it?” And it was cool, but we really didn’t feel anything.

Israeli soldiers escort a group of Palestinian school children as they walk through the Israeli settlement of Havat Ma'on in West Bank.
The students’ journey takes them through a legal and political maze as they pass between a legal and an illegal Israeli settlement on their way
to school. The soldiers are escorting them past a Jewish settlement harboring teens and adults who have attacked the youngsters
with sticks and stones.​

On Nov. 2, 2004, when experts testified that Palestinian schoolchildren at Tuwani were suffering from nightmares, anxiety and learning disabilities, legislators suggested that in a country with sophisticated surveillance and intelligence, the “thugs” at Havat Maon could be swiftly apprehended. Instead, the outpost has become a symbol of settler resistance: Vandals sprayed “Havat Maon” on the walls of the Dormition Abbey outside the Zion Gate near Jerusalem’s Old City during a spate of extremist vandalism in 2013.

And [the commander] gives an order: “Guys, all the tanks in a row, firing positions, all together facing the neighborhood of al-Bureij, we’re commencing engagement.” ‘Engagement’ means everyone firing at once, a countdown, “3, 2, 1, fire.” I remember it, all the tanks were standing in a row, and I personally asked my commander: “Where are we firing at?” He told me: “Pick wherever you feel like it.” And later, during talks with the other guys – each one basically chose his own target, and the commander called it on the two-way radio, ‘Good morning al-Bureij.’ “We are carrying out, a ‘Good morning al-Bureij,’ guys” that was the quote. Basically to wake up the neighborhood, to show those guys that ‘the IDF is here,’ and to carry out deterrence. I remember that all the tanks were standing in a row, and we were too, I was the gunner, and I looked at some building, which was very tall, at the center of that neighborhood, and I asked my commander, “OK, where do I hit that building?” And we decided between us – “OK, if you feel like aiming a bit to the right, a bit to the left, a bit toward that window, a bit toward the floor, let’s do that.” And then the commander says on the radio: “3, 2, 1, fire.” And everyone fired shells wherever they wanted to, obviously. Nobody had opened fire at us – not before, not after, not during.

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

I've said we in America need to rethink our friendship with Israel. They are a tremendous burden on us financially and cost us a lot of respect on the World stage. How have they reciprocated our friendship and given us in return for our generosity and protection? Many Americans are blind to and manipulated by the Israelis but many are starting to allow their eyes to see and mouths to speak. I hope more Americans in the future also get tired of being played for suckers. Don't allow the anti-Semite card to make you feel defensive anymore than you'd let the race card bother you. Israel's policy toward us seems to be, "The more you do, the more you owe." America needs to be for Americans.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

I've said we in America need to rethink our friendship with Israel. They are a tremendous burden on us financially and cost us a lot of respect on the World stage. How have they reciprocated our friendship and given us in return for our generosity and protection? Many Americans are blind to and manipulated by the Israelis but many are starting to allow their eyes to see and mouths to speak. I hope more Americans in the future also get tired of being played for suckers. Don't allow the anti-Semite card to make you feel defensive anymore than you'd let the race card bother you. Israel's policy toward us seems to be, "The more you do, the more you owe." America needs to be for Americans.

I hope so.

I'm sorry, I'm a little pissed off at the moment and I probably should have put my OP more neutral. It's reading articles like these that really make me question why the US is being a poodle of this fascist regime, no matter what.

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

I hope so.

I'm sorry, I'm a little pissed off at the moment and I probably should have put my OP more neutral. It's reading articles like these that really make me question why the US is being a poodle of this fascist regime, no matter what.

You're good with me. I'm frustrated too. I do see more Americans with courage having open and honest dialogue about Israel. Good we have the internet will many sources of information to choose from.

 

[Rey C.]

You're good with me. I'm frustrated too. I do see more Americans with courage having open and honest dialogue about Israel. Good we have the internet will many sources of information to choose from.

If you haven't already, read 1984. Then take 30 minutes or so out of your day and watch ten different news channels on your TV, for five minutes each. Do the same thing the next day, only watch some entertainment shows or TV dramas. Make some generalized notes about what impressions you get from each viewing experience. Include the commercials in your notes, and what themes you notice being repeated. Do you see any common themes? How could that be? And knowing that there is a move afoot to ban certain words (notice who specifically is behind that movement and what other associations these groups tend to have) and thoughts on certain internet platforms, do you believe that the days of free flowing ideas (that are not Groupthink friendly) have much longer to run??? I don't. I'm sorry, but I don't. Just call it "hate speech" or "hurtful" and poof!, it's as good as gone. Pretty neat trick, eh? And for those who think that's a weird thing to be doing (analyzing media programming), it's what I do. That's how I make my shekels: gathering and analyzing relevant data, and using it to come to a conclusion. People should try it... instead of being led around by the nose like a barnyard animal, waiting to be fed.

The revolution will not be televised... because there will be no revolution. As in 1984, sure, there will be a few who will not bend so easily. And they will oppose the PC Groupthink that currently plagues this nation (on the left and the right) to a certain degree. But most people (especially Americans) just want to be fat, dumb and happy. They (we?) will occasionally speak out on the internet or in private circles, but that's as far as it will go. AIPAC and the AJC have a solid lock on both the Democrat and the Republican parties... especially the Evangelical and neocon wings of that party. The few who believe that this Republic, the United States of America, has no obligation to any nation, which should come before its obligation to its own citizens, have no national voice and I don't believe ever will have a national voice. The Cranston Amendment is now written into U.S. law. And there is no sign and little possibility that that law will be changed in the near or medium term. A nation which has to borrow to fund its own existence and operation (because of never ending deficits), is now obliged (by law) to take borrowed funds, and give that money to a nation which has used guilt, bribes and political influence to make it so. Anyone who supports that, I call a traitor to the Republic. And if I have to burn in Hell, I only ask that I be allowed to light them on fire before the fire consumes me.

As I've had to explain here and on other forums, I am not anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic. But I most certainly am opposed to radical Zionism (and most any other radical political movement that you can think of). But could I publicly voice my views on Israel? I could. But it wouldn't be wise. Especially not when I was in banking. Why? Because it was (and is) waaaay too easy for an opponent to play the anti-Semitism/Hitler/Holocaust card. And thus, because I also liked being fat, dumb and happy, I have been largely silent outside of private or anonymous circles. So I admit that I have been as much a part of the problem as those who are just sheep, who believe whatever is shoveled into their empty heads in regard to Israel and/or radical Zionism. See, I liked my Jaguars, my racing and my other baubles - that was/is my panem et circenses. And rocking the boat with that kind of talk, especially if you're in banking, would make funding that lifestyle more than a bit difficult.

So, what happens? Uh, we're basically fucked until the Chinese eventually cancel our credit line. And then? Hell, I don't know. I guess we'll just start sending our tax checks directly to the Bank of Israel instead of the U.S. Treasury. :dunno:

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

If you haven't already, read 1984. Then take 30 minutes or so out of your day and watch ten different news channels on your TV, for five minutes each. Do the same thing the next day, only watch some entertainment shows or TV dramas. Make some generalized notes about what impressions you get from each viewing experience. Include the commercials in your notes, and what themes you notice being repeated. Do you see any common themes? How could that be? And knowing that there is a move afoot to ban certain words (notice who specifically is behind that movement and what other associations these groups tend to have) and thoughts on certain internet platforms, do you believe that the days of free flowing ideas (that are not Groupthink friendly) have much longer to run??? I don't. I'm sorry, but I don't. Just call it "hate speech" or "hurtful" and poof!, it's as good as gone. Pretty neat trick, eh? And for those who think that's a weird thing to be doing (analyzing media programming), it's what I do. That's how I make my shekels: gathering and analyzing relevant data, and using it to come to a conclusion. People should try it... instead of being led around by the nose like a barnyard animal, waiting to be fed.

The revolution will not be televised... because there will be no revolution. As in 1984, sure, there will be a few who will not bend so easily. And they will oppose the PC Groupthink that currently plagues this nation (on the left and the right) to a certain degree. But most people (especially Americans) just want to be fat, dumb and happy. They (we?) will occasionally speak out on the internet or in private circles, but that's as far as it will go. AIPAC and the AJC have a solid lock on both the Democrat and the Republican parties... especially the Evangelical and neocon wings of that party. The few who believe that this Republic, the United States of America, has no obligation to any nation, which should come before its obligation to its own citizens, have no national voice and I don't believe ever will have a national voice. The Cranston Amendment is now written into U.S. law. And there is no sign and little possibility that that law will be changed in the near or medium term. A nation which has to borrow to fund its own existence and operation (because of never ending deficits), is now obliged (by law) to take borrowed funds, and give that money to a nation which has used guilt, bribes and political influence to make it so. Anyone who supports that, I call a traitor to the Republic. And if I have to burn in Hell, I only ask that I be allowed to light them on fire before the fire consumes me.

As I've had to explain here and on other forums, I am not anti-Jewish or anti-Semitic. But I most certainly am opposed to radical Zionism (and most any other radical political movement that you can think of). But could I publicly voice my views on Israel? I could. But it wouldn't be wise. Especially not when I was in banking. Why? Because it was (and is) waaaay too easy for an opponent to play the anti-Semitism/Hitler/Holocaust card. And thus, because I also liked being fat, dumb and happy, I have been largely silent outside of private or anonymous circles. So I admit that I have been as much a part of the problem as those who are just sheep, who believe whatever is shoveled into their empty heads in regard to Israel and/or radical Zionism. See, I liked my Jaguars, my racing and my other baubles - that was/is my panem et circenses. And rocking the boat with that kind of talk, especially if you're in banking, would make funding that lifestyle more than a bit difficult.

So, what happens? Uh, we're basically fucked until the Chinese eventually cancel our credit line. And then? Hell, I don't know. I guess we'll just start sending our tax checks directly to the Bank of Israel instead of the U.S. Treasury. :dunno:

Good post, Rey. I see you're feeling better not referring to yourself in the third person anymore. I have taken steps, even if baby steps, toward what you suggested. If I didn't I woulda watched the same crapola and thought Israel was infallible. As far as television ads I do like to look at those seeing what message they're trying to convey and who they are attempting to reach. I haven't read 1984 since I was a kid though.

 

[Rey C.]

Nah, feelin' better - but still took the day off. I didn't have access to any Wonton soup, so I had to go with a bowl of Campbell's chicken noodle. Eh, you gotta go with what ya got in a pinch.

Groupthink. It's a topic that needs to be spoken of and discussed at every opportunity, and with that, hopefully even the lowest common denominator mouth-breather will have a clue as to why he/she says and thinks what he/she says and thinks. Goin' along to get along... that's what we call it here in the South.

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

Nah, feelin' better - but still took the day off.

I think I'll take the day off too. I'm not sick, just a...

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

I feel this character trying to reach into my pocket far too often. I'm his brother as long as I brought cash with me.

 

[BioDefenseGrad]

Nah, feelin' better - but still took the day off. I didn't have access to any Wonton soup, so I had to go with a bowl of Campbell's chicken noodle. Eh, you gotta go with what ya got in a pinch.

Groupthink. It's a topic that needs to be spoken of and discussed at every opportunity, and with that, hopefully even the lowest common denominator mouth-breather will have a clue as to why he/she says and thinks what he/she says and thinks. Goin' along to get along... that's what we call it here in the South.

Funny how people associated with the Facebook founder have been among the most vocal in calls to remove anonymity from the internet.

They say it's about discourse. No, it's about intimidation and domination. They want names, faces, addresses and places of employment so they can destroy you and your career, your children's future too if you step out of line and speak the truth.

Their old playbook doesn't work as well as it used to now that there are alternative channels of mass communication besides the mainstream liberal/conservative media.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

The revolution will not be televised... because there will be no revolution. As in 1984, sure, there will be a few who will not bend so easily. And they will oppose the PC Groupthink that currently plagues this nation (on the left and the right) to a certain degree. But most people (especially Americans) just want to be fat, dumb and happy.

"Plays, farces, spectacles, gladiators, strange beasts, medals, pictures, and other such opiates, these were for ancient peoples the bait toward slavery, the price of their liberty, the instruments of tyranny. By these practices and enticements the ancient dictators so successfully lulled their subjects under the yoke, that the stupefied peoples, fascinated by the pastimes and vain pleasures flashed before their eyes, learned subservience as naively, but not so creditably, as little children learn to read by looking at bright picture books. Roman tyrants invented a further refinement. They often provided the city wards with feasts to cajole the rabble, always more readily tempted by the pleasure of eating than by anything else. The most intelligent and understanding amongst them would not have quit his soup bowl to recover the liberty of the Republic of Plato. Tyrants would distribute largess, a bushel of wheat, a gallon of wine, and a sesterce: and then everybody would shamelessly cry, 'Long live the King!' The fools did not realize that they were merely recovering a portion of their own property, and that their ruler could not have given them what they were receiving without having first taken it from them."

- Etienne de La Boétie
Discours sur la servitude volontaire 1548

I think you would enjoy reading that essay. An online version can be found here

 

[Jack Davenport]

 

[Rey C.]

"Plays, farces, spectacles, gladiators, strange beasts, medals, pictures, and other such opiates, these were for ancient peoples the bait toward slavery, the price of their liberty, the instruments of tyranny. By these practices and enticements the ancient dictators so successfully lulled their subjects under the yoke, that the stupefied peoples, fascinated by the pastimes and vain pleasures flashed before their eyes, learned subservience as naively, but not so creditably, as little children learn to read by looking at bright picture books. Roman tyrants invented a further refinement. They often provided the city wards with feasts to cajole the rabble, always more readily tempted by the pleasure of eating than by anything else. The most intelligent and understanding amongst them would not have quit his soup bowl to recover the liberty of the Republic of Plato. Tyrants would distribute largess, a bushel of wheat, a gallon of wine, and a sesterce: and then everybody would shamelessly cry, 'Long live the King!' The fools did not realize that they were merely recovering a portion of their own property, and that their ruler could not have given them what they were receiving without having first taken it from them."

- Etienne de La Boétie
Discours sur la servitude volontaire 1548

I think you would enjoy reading that essay. An online version can be found here

Brilliant find! And I will read that essay. Thank you. :clap: