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Cop chooses to de-escalate rather than shoot ; gets fired.

West Virginia cop fired for not killing a man with an unloaded gun

We’ve tracked countless cases here where cops were able to keep their jobs after killing unarmed people, killing people after responding to the wrong house, killing people and then lying about it . . . the list goes on.
Give the Weirton, W.Va., police chief some credit. He’s come up with a new spin on the the same problem. He just fired a cop for not killing someone.




From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:
After responding to a report of a domestic incident on May 6 in Weirton, W.Va., then-Weirton police officer Stephen Mader found himself confronting an armed man.

Immediately, the training he had undergone as a Marine to look at “the whole person” in deciding if someone was a terrorist, as well as his situational police academy training, kicked in and he did not shoot.

“I saw then he had a gun, but it was not pointed at me,” Mr. Mader recalled, noting the silver handgun was in the man’s right hand, hanging at his side and pointed at the ground.

Mr. Mader, who was standing behind Mr. Williams’ car parked on the street, said he then “began to use my calm voice.”

“I told him, ‘Put down the gun,’ and he’s like, ‘Just shoot me.’ And I told him, ‘I’m not going to shoot you brother.’ Then he starts flicking his wrist to get me to react to it.

I thought I was going to be able to talk to him and deescalate it. I knew it was a suicide-by-cop” situation.


Mader was responding to a 911 call from Williams’s girlfriend. In that call, she told police that Williams was threatening to kill himself, not anyone else.

What Mader did upon arriving at the scene is a hell of a lot braver course of action than simply opening fire when the suspect doesn’t immediately disarm. What Mader did is in fact exactly what we want cops to do when someone is in crisis. It’s also precisely what law enforcement officers say they do on a daily basis — put themselves at risk in order to save lives. Mader should have been given a medal. Unfortunately, two more cops then showed up, and quickly shot Williams dead.

As it turns out, Williams’s gun wasn’t loaded. There’s no way any of the police officers could have known that. But it does show that Mader had read Williams correctly — he wasn’t actually a threat to anyone but himself. His life could have been saved.

The Weirton police department then refused to name Williams for three days and assigned an investigator to look into the shooting . . . who then promptly left for a weeklong vacation. Then came the punchline.

Mr. Mader — speaking publicly about this case for the first time — said that when he tried to return to work on May 17, following normal protocol for taking time off after an officer-involved shooting, he was told to go see Weirton Police Chief Rob Alexander.

In a meeting with the chief and City Manager Travis Blosser, Mr. Mader said Chief Alexander told him: “We’re putting you on administrative leave and we’re going to do an investigation to see if you are going to be an officer here. You put two other officers in danger.

Mr. Mader said that “right then I said to him: ‘Look, I didn’t shoot him because he said, ‘Just shoot me.’ ”

On June 7, a Weirton officer delivered him a notice of termination letter dated June 6, which said by not shooting Mr. Williams he “failed to eliminate a threat.”


The city mentioned two other incidents in firing Mader, but it seems clear that his failure to kill Williams was the motivation for his termination. Even the rare cop who gets fired often gets to keep his pension. Mader won’t be getting one.

After he received his termination notice, Mr. Mader sought attorneys to help him fight the city. He was told because he was still a probationary employee in an “at-will” state, he could be fired for any reason and there was no point in fighting the city.

One attorney told him the best he could hope for was to ask to resign instead of being terminated.

“But I told [the attorney] ‘Look, I don’t want to admit guilt. I’ll take the termination instead of the resignation because I didn’t do anything wrong,’ ” Mr. Mader said. “To resign and admit I did something wrong here would have ate at me. I think I’m right in what I did. I’ll take it to the grave.”

Over the weekend, the New York Times ran an article about the longstanding problem in which even the rare bad cops who do get fired are often able to quickly find work at another policy agency. Mader, who served a tour in Afghanistan and has two sons under five-years-old, told the Post-Gazette that he’s now studying for a commercial truck driving license, but he’d consider another job in law enforcement if he were offered one. I hope that happens. I hope he’s given the same second chance that corrupt, trigger-happy cops are given. My hunch is that he’ll be driving trucks.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-with-an-unloaded-gun/?utm_term=.e0a523034051

Weirton's police chief claim Mader put his fellow police officers at risk. It's wrong, Williams never pointed his gun at a police officer. And the gun was not even loaded.
Weirton's police chief pretends Mader failed to eliminate a threat. The truth is he was in the process of eliminating it. Unfortunately to his fellow cops, eliminating threat = eliminating any person who could be a threat.


"To protect and to serve", right ? Now let me ask the question : Who did Mader protect ? From who ? And who did his fellow cops protect ? From who ?
Mader tried to protect Williams from himself.
His fellow cops protected themselves from Mader, who was later found not to have been a threat for anyone but himself.
Mader should be given a medal, his fellow cops should have been fired. Instead Mader was fired ans his fellow cops won't have to face the consequences of them murdering a man for no reason.


Some say the cops who end up in the newd for killing unarmed people are just bad apples. Mader's case the problem is systemic, that these cops may not have been the bad applesz whe think they are and that the problem is how cops are trained to shoot before thinking, to always think the person they face is a threat to their lives.
 

Ace Boobtoucher

Founder and Captain of the Douchepatrol
First off, worry about your own fucked up police.

Police training and military training are two different things. In the fucked up military that Stompy Foot, Dubya and Hillary's Beard helped create, military personnel have been castrated by bullshit Rules of Engagement that don't allow for real self defense. If someone has to wait for a threat to actually shoot at them, then they're gonna have a bad day.

Police training allows for the defense of oneself or others by letting the officer make a determination if there is a real threat and if there is what appropriate force should be used to protect themselves and the public. The officer involved in this incident showed compassion and a foresight that should have been commended instead of punished. I would have deployed a taser, beanbags or pepper spray, though. That suspect was still a threat.
 
Treasure; American. See Boobtoucher, Ace.
 
I'd like to know what these "other 2 incidents" were that part of his firing, but unless they were serious I don't see what anyone could say to possibly justify this.

And I assume the cops that DID shoot him dead got no reprimand at all?
 

Ace Boobtoucher

Founder and Captain of the Douchepatrol
Also to the Asshat OP, you never let someone point a gun at you. A furtive motion and a weapon are all that is required to light someone the fuck up. You don't give them an opportunity to kill you. And tvstrip, what the fuck are you on about? The offender walked away from this incident un-perforated. Or are you confusing this incident with something else?
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
Also to the Asshat OP, you never let someone point a gun at you. A furtive motion and a weapon are all that is required to light someone the fuck up. You don't give them an opportunity to kill you. And tvstrip, what the fuck are you on about? The offender walked away from this incident un-perforated. Or are you confusing this incident with something else?

You would have been right - if only the person who had this "suicide plan" in mind was pointing the weapon in the direction of the officer, or, at that, at anybody. In fact, the article says, he let his arm hang down, the weapon pointing on the ground.

The officer did the right thing, the othe officers shot a person that was no direct threat and was in a situation that was beginning to de-escalate.
 
Also to the Asshat OP, you never let someone point a gun at you. A furtive motion and a weapon are all that is required to light someone the fuck up. You don't give them an opportunity to kill you. And tvstrip, what the fuck are you on about? The offender walked away from this incident un-perforated. Or are you confusing this incident with something else?

Ace, what are you talking about? The guy was shot dead by two other officers on the scene.
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
Ace, what are you talking about? The guy was shot dead by two other officers on the scene.

Our good old Ace is getting a little Pavlov there.

Cop See Gun, Cop Shoot Dead.

I want to add a detail that may or may very much make a difference in the case:

West Virginia Cop Fired For Refusing To Shoot Black Man Holding Unloaded Gun

Time and time again we’ve read and reported incidents in which unarmed Black men and women were shot down by police. But this time, a West Virginia officer lost his job for not shooting a man who held an unloaded gun because he reportedly put other officers in danger.

On May 6, Officer Stephen Mader responded to a domestic disturbance call in Weirton, West Virginia. When Mader arrived on the scene, he was confronted by Ronald Williams, a 23-year-old Black man, reports the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Williams’ girlfriend made the call to police.

...

http://newsone.com/3538091/west-virginia-cop-stephen-mader-fired/

Is it another case of "White cops vs. Black citizen"?
 
Indeed, not shooting innocent black folks is unacceptable. I guess is the victim had been a white man and if Mader would have shot him dead he would have been fired as well...
 
And tvstrip, what the fuck are you on about? The offender walked away from this incident un-perforated. Or are you confusing this incident with something else?
What Mader did is in fact exactly what we want cops to do when someone is in crisis. It’s also precisely what law enforcement officers say they do on a daily basis — put themselves at risk in order to save lives. Mader should have been given a medal. Unfortunately, two more cops then showed up, and quickly shot Williams dead.
As it turns out, Williams’s gun wasn’t loaded. There’s no way any of the police officers could have known that. But it does show that Mader had read Williams correctly — he wasn’t actually a threat to anyone but himself. His life could have been saved.
Yeah, I don't think we're reading the same article. He was definitely perforated, holding an empty gun no less.
What the article doesn't say is whether the 2 cops that shot him got any reprimand.
 
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