"Cancel Culture"

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

I find it ironic to see that on his birthday 6 of Dr. Seuss's books will be "retired" from publication due to "racist " and insensitive" Imagery.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/02/six...ecause-of-racist-and-insensitive-imagery.html

This type of thing is what drives folks into the arms of Trump. Especially old White Folks who see their culture changing for reasons they cannot begin to understand. Although the Trumpistas are using this "canceling" for their own purposes as well it started with folks on College campuses where you must admit that the faculty is not often conservative. Add to that people not wanting to hear "unsafe" speech and here we are. I know this had been alluded to before but we seem to be unable to realize that times change. As Bill Maher has said" In 200 years the people then will be thoroughly disgusted by what we do everyday now". Why can't shit be used but teach people to realize stuff changes? More terminal stupidity.

 

[mongo18]

you must admit that the faculty is not often conservative.

Funny how the more educated people get, the less likely they are to lean right.

So much of the outrage about cancel culture is just snowflakes being snowflakes with no good reason.
A good example is Australia day, which is on the date of the landing of the first fleet, which indigenous Australians see as the day their country was invaded and occupied. So every year the conversation comes up about moving the day to a different date. And every year, the "war on xmas" crowd is up in arms over this egregious assault on their heritage. Funny part is, most Australians have no idea why it's on January 26th. A lot of them think it was the date of federation, which was January 1st. And I'd bet that somewhere around 90% of them couldn't care less, as long as they get a day off. It would cost them NOTHING if the date was changed, but they won't allow it because it gives those other people something that they want. I honestly believe that that's all there is to it. Just can't stand to see them have a win.
Similar with our recent move to legalize gay marriage by plebiscite. My father at the time was saying he didn't know which way he should vote, because it doesn't affect him. I told him then you vote fucking yes, how is that not obvious to you???

Every year when the war on xmas talk starts, I like to tell those people I've never heard anyone complain about the term "merry xmas," but I've heard a TON of people complain about the term "happy holidays," so who's really waging the war???

 

[mongo18]

Just came across these after posting in this thread. Sorry for the longness, but it's pretty relevant.

Edit: not sure how to make this better and no time to figure out, gotta run. Download it, it's worth a look.

And some (believe it or not) Dr Seuss pics from long ago...

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

The point I am making is that the past is the past. Acknowledge it and learn from it. Don't try to pretend it did not exist. And the adult Dr Seuss is not the children's books. Political cartoons. As far as the smaller stuff you posted I can't get it to become big enough to read.

 

[mongo18]

I didn't really have much info when I posted this morning, got out of bed and had to get to work and the world was in an uproar over Dr Seuss getting cancelled, so i just chucked up some shit that seemed relevant. That long one that came out tiny is a thread pointing out that those books haven't been banned from anywhere, and in fact 8 of the 10 "most challenged" books from 2019 (most challenged meaning people wanted them banned) were challenged for including LGBTQ themes.
I've since found out that the whole thing is because the company that has sole power over Dr Seuss material chose to take those 6 books out of print. That is, an organization whose sole purpose is to make money off that material, made it's own decision that that goal would be better served without those 6 books. The whole uproar, as usual, is just snowflakes being snowflakes.

I posted those other pics because I hadn't seen them before and I was more than a little shocked that they were from post-WW2 years, and not the last 4. Didn't know Dr Seuss was also prescient.

Here's another fun one for the cancel snowflakes:

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

I just want to say that Dr.Suess is not my main point here. Haven't read him since my 31 year old was a child. Just the idea that instead of realizing what history is and how it affected us is what we need to keep. I mean if they really did not want to make a statement to the world they could have just had future copies printed with redrawn illustrations That said unless the story itself was radically racist then perhaps it was warranted. I honestly don't remember them all. Regarding Potato head, that certainly could have been changed as needed. Just as other companies changed their names or their products. I don't care. I never bought Aunt Jemima, just syrup. I am of the opinion if something offends a large group and it is not really germane to it's identity. then change the damn thing. I am a big fan of just assigning everything a number and be done with it. That said unless your are from a group named the sevens, no one should get mad. But you see how that has gone.

 

[mongo18]

I think the outrage is stupid. Nobody who actually plays with a potato head cares what gender it is, they'll make it whatever they want. And nobody is having their quality of life affected by 6 of the 63 Dr Seuss books going out of print.

Far right snowflakes just love playing the victim.

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

You are right especially about the Potato head(might just be a marketing campaign to increase sales anyway). I guess I just don't like the idea of history denied. Though this time it is the Trumpistas who are yelling. The whole idea of relegating parts of history to the ashcan bothers me. And Mongo since we seem to the only ones interested in this I expect we have said we have to say. Or at least i have.

 

[mongo18]

Or we are the only two who have chased the squirrel. While we're talking about potato heads and kids books, republicans are passing voter suppression laws all over the country, blocking assistance to desperate Americans, and just generally being shitty, racist, anti-democratic assholes.
Nobody really gives a shit about this stuff, least of all the people who are bitching about it right now.

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

Yeah I know. Can't blame me for trying a new tact though. I do get tired of the same old thing especially now that it seems like only a few of us are interested in any of it.

 

[mongo18]

It's exhausting and it's difficult to even know what anyone else wants to talk about anymore. Used to be you'd catch them in some lie, or hypocrisy, regardless of which side they were, you'd point it out victoriously and they would try to defend or excuse the actions of their side.
But now it's all just out in the open and blatant. republicans don't try to hide what they're doing, and barely make a half assed attempt at justifying it, because they know their base is glued on and not going anywhere, and I also suspect they know that they're not picking up many new supporters. So all they're doing now is trying any brazen scam they can come up with to maintain their hold on power as a minority government, because they know they'll never face the judgement of their base. As long as they kiss the orange ring, that is. And who even knows what the fuck that's about, he doesn't stand for a single one of the principles republicans ever claimed to have, he doesn't even seem like the kind of guy the average republican voter would have liked less than a decade ago.
And now that they've all scattered from the forum like cockroaches all we're doing is agreeing with each other. Every day is like "oh man, which of the half dozen things republicans did today that would have had all alarms blazing a few years ago even warrants bringing up in conversation now?" So you pick one and post it and one of 3 or 4 people will agree "yeah, that's fucked up." It's why I mostly only post memes anymore, because it doesn't seem worth putting any effort into real posts and at least memes are often funny. There's only one confessed republican voter left who posts here anymore, and he won't even attempt to defend them, only posting ridiculous bullshit.

Maybe it's all gone past a joke, it's well past politics at least, and starting to get a little too real. People are brainwashed and indoctrinated. People are dying because they'd rather tow the party line than follow the advice of real doctors. People believe shit that's demonstrably false just because 1 prolific liar told them to, and no weight or volume of evidence to the contrary will change their minds. And it seems to me (and I've been keeping an eye out for a while), that nobody has any idea how to deal with this, or where it's going to end up, but a whole bunch of people have some idea where it might end up. And if you think that's all a bit hyperbolic, just go to youtube and have a read through the comments on any right wing vid.

That turned into kind of a rant, but I think somewhere in there it approaches understanding of why it's so hard lately to keep focus here and so many have left. It stopped being fun when it started getting too real.

 

[John_8581]

I didn't really have much info when I posted this morning, got out of bed and had to get to work and the world was in an uproar over Dr Seuss getting cancelled, so i just chucked up some shit that seemed relevant. That long one that came out tiny is a thread pointing out that those books haven't been banned from anywhere, and in fact 8 of the 10 "most challenged" books from 2019 (most challenged meaning people wanted them banned) were challenged for including LGBTQ themes.
I've since found out that the whole thing is because the company that has sole power over Dr Seuss material chose to take those 6 books out of print. That is, an organization whose sole purpose is to make money off that material, made it's own decision that that goal would be better served without those 6 books. The whole uproar, as usual, is just snowflakes being snowflakes.

I posted those other pics because I hadn't seen them before and I was more than a little shocked that they were from post-WW2 years, and not the last 4. Didn't know Dr Seuss was also prescient.

Here's another fun one for the cancel snowflakes:

View attachment 861862

Freddy Mercury had a mustache too. Not to take anything away from the LGBT community. But to have Charlotte Clymer come out and say in her statement of scientific validation of Mr. Potato Head? That's nonsense. It's insanity. So let me get this right, if children play with Mr. Potato Head and create two Mr. Potato Heads instead of one Mr. Potato Head and one Mrs. Potato Head. Then they're prone to be sexually orientated toward being gay? Shame on you Charlotte Clymer.

The point I am making is that the past is the past. Acknowledge it and learn from it. Don't try to pretend it did not exist. And the adult Dr Seuss is not the children's books. Political cartoons. As far as the smaller stuff you posted I can't get it to become big enough to read.

Exactly. Acknowledge the past and learn from it. But don't pretend that it did not exist.

 

[gmase]

You are right especially about the Potato head(might just be a marketing campaign to increase sales anyway). I guess I just don't like the idea of history denied. Though this time it is the Trumpistas who are yelling. The whole idea of relegating parts of history to the ashcan bothers me.

In my cynical opinion, both actions are publicity stunts. The Seuss estate could have done what any other publisher does when a book's shelf life is done - quietly stop printing more. No one would have missed them, but the antiquarian-bookseller-retailing complex played their cards right on this one.

From the NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/04/books/dr-seuss-books.html

Classic children’s books are perennial best sellers and an important revenue stream for publishers. Last year, more than 338,000 copies of “Green Eggs and Ham” were sold across the United States ... "One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish” sold more than 311,000 copies, and “Oh, the Places You’ll Go!” ... sold more than 513,000 copies.​

​

“And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street,” one of the six books pulled by the estate, sold about 5,000 copies last year, according to BookScan. “McElligot’s Pool” and “The Cat’s Quizzer” haven’t sold in years through the retailers BookScan tracks. Putting the merits of the books aside, removing “Green Eggs and Ham” would be a completely different business proposition from doing away with new printings of “McElligot’s Pool.” (Though the news that the books would be pulled caused a burst of demand, and copies of “Mulberry Street” were listed on eBay and Amazon for hundreds or thousands of dollars on Wednesday.)​

I mean if they really did not want to make a statement to the world they could have just had future copies printed with redrawn illustrations

The lack of sales explains why they didn't take the more obvious tact as you noted here.

Maybe it's all gone past a joke, it's well past politics at least, and starting to get a little too real.

You got that right.

 

[gmase]

Exactly. Acknowledge the past and learn from it. But don't pretend that it did not exist.

Here's the famous quote I used to rely upon: Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Here's how I feel today: What happens when we remember the past and still repeat it?

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

It's exhausting and it's difficult to even know what anyone else wants to talk about anymore. Used to be you'd catch them in some lie, or hypocrisy, regardless of which side they were, you'd point it out victoriously and they would try to defend or excuse the actions of their side.
But now it's all just out in the open and blatant. republicans don't try to hide what they're doing, and barely make a half assed attempt at justifying it, because they know their base is glued on and not going anywhere, and I also suspect they know that they're not picking up many new supporters. So all they're doing now is trying any brazen scam they can come up with to maintain their hold on power as a minority government, because they know they'll never face the judgement of their base. As long as they kiss the orange ring, that is. And who even knows what the fuck that's about, he doesn't stand for a single one of the principles republicans ever claimed to have, he doesn't even seem like the kind of guy the average republican voter would have liked less than a decade ago.
And now that they've all scattered from the forum like cockroaches all we're doing is agreeing with each other. Every day is like "oh man, which of the half dozen things republicans did today that would have had all alarms blazing a few years ago even warrants bringing up in conversation now?" So you pick one and post it and one of 3 or 4 people will agree "yeah, that's fucked up." It's why I mostly only post memes anymore, because it doesn't seem worth putting any effort into real posts and at least memes are often funny. There's only one confessed republican voter left who posts here anymore, and he won't even attempt to defend them, only posting ridiculous bullshit.

Maybe it's all gone past a joke, it's well past politics at least, and starting to get a little too real. People are brainwashed and indoctrinated. People are dying because they'd rather tow the party line than follow the advice of real doctors. People believe shit that's demonstrably false just because 1 prolific liar told them to, and no weight or volume of evidence to the contrary will change their minds. And it seems to me (and I've been keeping an eye out for a while), that nobody has any idea how to deal with this, or where it's going to end up, but a whole bunch of people have some idea where it might end up. And if you think that's all a bit hyperbolic, just go to youtube and have a read through the comments on any right wing vid.

That turned into kind of a rant, but I think somewhere in there it approaches understanding of why it's so hard lately to keep focus here and so many have left. It stopped being fun when it started getting too real.

Well thought out and said. As I have written before, They believe because they want to believe. Just like any Religion or cult, the fantasy is better in their minds than the reality. And it explains in their minds a way that all the stupid stuff they have said or did is not their fault. I don't remember if I ever posted my Theory of Stupidity here?
If I have please feel free to zone out for a minute. It is:
1. Stupidity loves Company. That means if you are doing something stupid you want to get as many other people to do it as possible. That way if someone says you are doing something stupid you can answer, How can it be stupid, look at all the others doing it to.
Corollary 1. Stupidity is it's own Reward. Kind of like the theory of Knowledge- The less you know, the more you think you know.
Corollary 2. This suggested by a late co-worker of mine. Stupidly is it's own Satisfaction. Being that the more Stupid you act, the prouder of yourself you are.
Feel free to disagree.

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

Here's the famous quote I used to rely upon: Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Here's how I feel today: What happens when we remember the past and still repeat it?

Read my theories. Repeat

 

[D-rock]

This is like the War on Christmas stuff all over again.

1. Most people just don't give a damn strongly either way, and never did.
2. The right is playing the victim mentality against something that's either non-existent or against relatively few people that care, and they call other people the snowflakes.
3. With the stuff going on the world like Coronavirus, lack of health care, education, our planets habitability going to hell, or people lacking decent levels of living I just don't give a damn about this to be honest. I pride myself on multitasking with important concepts,...and still don't care about this. It's not important, like at all.

4. This is a private entity with a small handful of people in it making a business decision. It's not a fucking Middle Age or Fahrenheit 451 level book burning. Nobody is coming into your home to take your Dr. Seuss books away from you. Nobody is inventing a mindwiping ray to erasing it from your mind. Nobody is "erasing" history. Please stop acting like it is. Plus while it's not the most important think the world it's also not like the people that have a problem with the Seuss books don't have any point whatsoever.

I also don't care if people 200 years from now look down upon what we do today if we deserve it, and they are correct. Time doesn't magically make wrongdoing right either in the past or the future. If something is wrong it's always been wrong. We have quite frankly did a lot of stupid reprehensible shit as a people through history and continue to do so, and their is a difference between learning from histories mistakes to not repeat it and glorifying or taking enjoyment from that history. Cancel culture can be a thing, but then again some thing just deserved to be canceled.

 

[mongo18]

Here's some perspective on it.