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Atheist airman must swear 'so help me God' or get out in November

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
Johan, a good point. Allah may bless you ;)

There are a number of members who see arguments like blows in a barroom fight. With these guys, you can't win any discussion. They take after Rambo more than after Jesus, even if they insist they have him on their side. Which is, of course, ironic, because Bullying for religion is what the Taliban etc do, those people they hate on the most.

Oh, I am wrong: What's worse than the Taliban are ATHEISIS - people too grown up to play the game of believing in fantasy magic overlords in the sky who make decisions for you.

Johan, walk away.

Look at this and smile, this is why we are here, right ;)

Water.gif

Is she possibly divining those boobs? If only she would divine Ace, too ^^
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
Listen to Brother Bill... you pushy religulious peeps get on my nerves. He puts it very clear

 
Evangelatheism is not a religion - its a cult.
Fundamentalist Christianity is not a religion it's a cult.
Its all a cult. the cult of personality.
choosing a side in a popularity pissing contest because somehow if you are forced to say in an oath or sign on a piece of paper some little bit in that statement siding with some obscure and open to interpretation statement, that now means one side of the popularity contest has a new member.
An atheist saying "so help me God" doesn't mean a beam of light is going to steak down from heaven and make them covert.
A good Christian who helped their fellow humans and saved many lives, who dies in a car crash screaming "Holy Jesus fucking Christ on an ass raping stick", is not damned for Hell.
we live with it every day. Don't think so? read the fine print on everything you ever sign or click agree to. - if you don't agree you don't get what you need.
And what is it we agree to? - to support some emotionally insecure position of paranoia, which in the end will come to nothing and have no significance what so ever.
they just want your money and your name on their ledger so they can claim they have the backing to their popularity club.
 

Ace Bandage

The one and only.
I'm an atheist. But I also understand why we have organized religion. I get it. Religion teaches people to live morally upright lives and to help their fellow man. Those are noble goals. I don't have a problem with any of it.

What I don't get is why some people are absolute douche canoes about being atheist. Awesome, you don't believe in a higher power. So it wouldn't hurt you to say "so help me God" then would it? You don't believe in him anyway, so what point are you making? You don't want to say it because you don't believe in him? If you said it with your fingers crossed, would anyone know? What if they made you say "so help me Santa Claus" would you say that?

Atheists can go through the motions. It doesn't hurt anything. I go to Easter and Christmas services every year because my dad wants me to. We've even had a talk about where I stand on religion. But it makes him happy if I go to church twice a year. I figured, hey, he loves me, raised me well, and he paid all of my college tuition bills. Going to church twice a year to see the old man smile isn't a big fucking deal.

All these whinny atheists make me sick. Just say the words and move on! I don't believe in any god or religion, it's all hogwash to me. I don't see the problem with saying "god" for an oath or during the pledge. It's all just words. If you really don't believe in "god" then why are you so fucking offended to say the word "god"?

Dude gets it.
 
I'm an atheist. But I also understand why we have organized religion. I get it. Religion teaches people to live morally upright lives and to help their fellow man. Those are noble goals. I don't have a problem with any of it.

What I don't get is why some people are absolute douche canoes about being atheist. Awesome, you don't believe in a higher power. So it wouldn't hurt you to say "so help me God" then would it? You don't believe in him anyway, so what point are you making? You don't want to say it because you don't believe in him? If you said it with your fingers crossed, would anyone know? What if they made you say "so help me Santa Claus" would you say that?

Atheists can go through the motions. It doesn't hurt anything. I go to Easter and Christmas services every year because my dad wants me to. We've even had a talk about where I stand on religion. But it makes him happy if I go to church twice a year. I figured, hey, he loves me, raised me well, and he paid all of my college tuition bills. Going to church twice a year to see the old man smile isn't a big fucking deal.

Dude gets it.

What's wrong with it? IT'S A LIE!!! and some people don't want to lie and certainly don't want to be forced to lie by their Government!
 
I'm an atheist. But I also understand why we have organized religion. I get it. Religion teaches people to live morally upright lives and to help their fellow man. Those are noble goals. I don't have a problem with any of it.
WRONG !
Organised religion is just a way ton control and manipulate people. One don't need religion to teach him morals. If you need religion to teach you right from wrong, you lack empathy, not religion.

What I don't get is why some people are absolute douche canoes about being atheist. Awesome, you don't believe in a higher power. So it wouldn't hurt you to say "so help me God" then would it? You don't believe in him anyway, so what point are you making? You don't want to say it because you don't believe in him? If you said it with your fingers crossed, would anyone know? What if they made you say "so help me Santa Claus" would you say that?
Because someone is forcing you to say something you don't wanna say, someone is forcing his religion on you

Atheists can go through the motions. It doesn't hurt anything. I go to Easter and Christmas services every year because my dad wants me to. We've even had a talk about where I stand on religion. But it makes him happy if I go to church twice a year. I figured, hey, he loves me, raised me well, and he paid all of my college tuition bills. Going to church twice a year to see the old man smile isn't a big fucking deal.
You're weak and hypocrite.
 

Deepcover

Closed Account
I noticed a lot of ppl who tend to be very educated seem to not want to believe in God/religion and ppl who work or lives below the means seem to have a very strong Christian background and attend church regularly. Interesting
 

Ace Bandage

The one and only.
WRONG !
Organised religion is just a way ton control and manipulate people. One don't need religion to teach him morals. If you need religion to teach you right from wrong, you lack empathy, not religion.
I went to church for the first 18 years of my life at my father's behest. I always had doubts about religion and once I was old enough to make my own decision in the matter, I decided to stop going. I was not controlled or manipulated during my time in the church. There's nothing wrong with learning about something and then making an informed decision about it on your own. That's what I did.

People are friendly at church and there's a sense of fellowship and community. Everyone greets you with a smile and people are genuinely happy to see you. I don't have a problem with any of that. For some people, it let's them know that there are people out there who care about them. When someone gets sick or injured, the congregation acknowledges this person's struggle and prays for them. Even if it doesn't help anything, it certainly doesn't hurt to know that people are thinking about you and hoping you improve.

Because someone is forcing you to say something you don't wanna say, someone is forcing his religion on you
I say the pledge of allegiance everyday at school with my students. I never skip the line "under God" either. So far nothing catastrophic has resulted from me saying those two words. It does not bother me to say them. Whether or not I believe any of it is irrelevant. It's part of the pledge so I'm going to say it.

When students ask me about my religion, I tell them that I am a member of the Methodist Church. That is a true statement. I do not discuss my exact beliefs with them. My religious beliefs are my own. It is not important to me that other people know where I stand in regards to religion. I have no desire to denigrate organized religion. I simply don't believe in their tenets. I don't feel the need, as you apparently do, to act sanctimonious about my beliefs. They simply are what they are. I have discussed my beliefs with close friends with the understanding that neither one of us is trying to convert the other.

I don't consider saying these phrases as having religion pushed on me. That is my opinion. You are certainly entitled to yours.

You're weak and hypocrite.
I am neither. I know what I believe. I just also believe that religion can benefit some people. If I could be afforded a little space here, I'll tell you why I believe that.

My grandmother lived to be 91 years old. She went to church on her own every Sunday up until a few months before she died. Some of my fondest memories as a youth were spending the night with her on Saturday and going to church on Sunday. She'd always have a roll of mints with her in her purse because she knew that my brother and I liked to eat them during the service. And it helped to keep us occupied. After church, we would go to lunch as a family. She would try to pay the bill every week, and my father would never let her. I don't think he ever let her pay... though she always insisted that she should.

During the days before her death, our pastor came to visit all of us while she was in hospice care. I'll never forget how overjoyed she was to see him when he first came into her room. It meant so much to her that he was there. Eventually, there came a time when we knew that she wasn't going to last much longer. Our pastor was there. And our family held hands with him around her bed as he said one last prayer for her. And it was a very moving experience for me because I knew how much her faith meant to her. She lived a very righteous life, and she believed that when she passed on she would be reunited with my grandfather in heaven (he passed away in 1985).

I don't believe any of that, but she did. And in the end, it didn't hurt anything that she believed in God or heaven. In fact, it made her more peaceful at the end. She believed that something was on the other side, and it gave her something to look forward to once her time here was over. When I spoke at her funeral, my eulogy had several religious references, and I also spoke about how important her faith was to her. Because that's who she was, and that's what mattered to her.

Understanding that religion is meaningful to some people doesn't make me hypocritical or weak. It just means that I recognize that my own values and beliefs are not shared by everyone. And that's okay as long as I know what's important to me.
 

BlkHawk

Closed Account
Understanding that religion is meaningful to some people doesn't make me hypocritical or weak. It just means that I recognize that my own values and beliefs are not shared by everyone. And that's okay as long as I know what's important to me.

This is at the center of the OP. Not forcing someone to go against their beliefs by reciting something they do not believe in. Why should anyone be forced to pretend to have a belief they do not in order for society to accept them?
 
I went to church for the first 18 years of my life at my father's behest. I always had doubts about religion and once I was old enough to make my own decision in the matter, I decided to stop going. I was not controlled or manipulated during my time in the church. There's nothing wrong with learning about something and then making an informed decision about it on your own. That's what I did.

People are friendly at church and there's a sense of fellowship and community. Everyone greets you with a smile and people are genuinely happy to see you. I don't have a problem with any of that. For some people, it let's them know that there are people out there who care about them. When someone gets sick or injured, the congregation acknowledges this person's struggle and prays for them. Even if it doesn't help anything, it certainly doesn't hurt to know that people are thinking about you and hoping you improve.
When I say that religion is a way to control people, I don't mean individual, I mean masses of people


I say the pledge of allegiance everyday at school with my students. I never skip the line "under God" either. So far nothing catastrophic has resulted from me saying those two words. It does not bother me to say them. Whether or not I believe any of it is irrelevant. It's part of the pledge so I'm going to say it.
Irrelevant : ther pledge always had these words. The oath the airman had to take used to allow those who wanted not to say these words but they changed it t force people to say them.
When students ask me about my religion, I tell them that I am a member of the Methodist Church. That is a true statement. I do not discuss my exact beliefs with them. My religious beliefs are my own. It is not important to me that other people know where I stand in regards to religion. I have no desire to denigrate organized religion. I simply don't believe in their tenets. I don't feel the need, as you apparently do, to act sanctimonious about my beliefs. They simply are what they are. I have discussed my beliefs with close friends with the understanding that neither one of us is trying to convert the other.

[...]

I am neither. I know what I believe. I just also believe that religion can benefit some people. If I could be afforded a little space here, I'll tell you why I believe that.
As I said, you're weak and hypocrite. If your student ask you about your religion, you could answer them that a) It's not their business b) You're an atheist. Saying that you're member of a religious organisation is plain hypocrisy if you don't believe in god anymore. I was baptised as a catholic so officialy I'm a a catholic. But I don' consider myself as one and I would never say to anyone that I am a memeber the Catholic Church.

If you don't wanna tell your student about your religious beleifs, just don't answer the question, do not provide an answer that would imply you're religious if you're not.


Understanding that religion is meaningful to some people doesn't make me hypocritical or weak. It just means that I recognize that my own values and beliefs are not shared by everyone. And that's okay as long as I know what's important to me.
attending to religious ceremonies in wich you don't believe just to please people makes you hypocrite and weak. If these people really care for you, they would accept your choice not to be religious. If you care for these people, don't do things that are meaningless for you just to please them.
 

bobjustbob

Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
Who are the true hypocrites here? Ace and his personal beliefs of how he handles his faith or you 2 forcing your beliefs upon him? Yea, forcing your beliefs upon him, just the thing you both claim religion to do. You claim that you don't need religion to learn how to make good decisions. I guess being self-righteous, selfish, and hurting your family's feelings should be included in your Atheism.
 

BlkHawk

Closed Account
Irrelevant : their pledge always had these words. .

Under God was added to the pledge in the 50's or 60's during one of the Red scares. Never used to be there prior to that.

Who are the true hypocrites here? Ace and his personal beliefs of how he handles his faith or you 2 forcing your beliefs upon him? Yea, forcing your beliefs upon him, just the thing you both claim religion to do. You claim that you don't need religion to learn how to make good decisions. I guess being self-righteous, selfish, and hurting your family's feelings should be included in your Atheism.

Um, I don't want someone to force me to state a belief I don't have, I also don't want someone to force Ace to state a belief he doesn't have. I didn't realize that was forcing my belief upon him. Don't know about your family, but I have hurt my family's feelings when I thought it was needed. It usually involved some racial tirade, my father has actually done an about face on those views over the past thirty years, because I stood up to him. I also stood up for a cousin who was repeatedly told she was going to hell because she had sex before she was married. I told them if they couldn't keep their religious judgments of others to themselves while in my house they could leave and never return. They shut up.
 

bobjustbob

Proud member of FreeOnes Hall Of Fame. Retired to
So how do you handle weddings, christenings, funerals, burials? Refuse to attend all of these events if in a sectarian setting? Refuse to attend family holiday dinners on religious holidays?
 

BlkHawk

Closed Account
So how do you handle weddings, christenings, funerals, burials? Refuse to attend all of these events if in a sectarian setting? Refuse to attend family holiday dinners on religious holidays?

Weddings honestly all of them have been secular in the past few years, the ones before that I would attend, I was guest, not participant.
Never been invited to a christening, never been close to any one who had it done.
Funerals, I don't join in on the prayers if there are any, I don't make a fuss or a scene, I just don't say the prayer. I'm there to say goodbye, and offer support to those left behind. Same with burials.

Family dinners are about family, I will go if they are on a holiday or not. My family is fully aware i am a non-believer, I don't ask them to give up their beliefs, they don't ask me to fake something I don't feel.

My father once asked me what service I would arrange for his funeral, he's a Christian believer, non church goer. I told him the truth, I would honor his wishes, and arrange a Christian service. I wouldn't participate in the prayers, but I wouldn't object to them as they are what he wants.

I don't know what your faith is, if any, lets say you are Jewish, you attend the funeral for a Christian friend. Do you pray to god in Jesus' name, or do you offer a silent prayer according to your beliefs?

Having different beliefs doesn't mean being rude, or a jackass to those who believe different. You can be respectful of others beliefs without pretending to have those same beliefs.

I have worked with Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, and Christians of many denominations. I have attended functions for many of them, and not one of them wanted me to pretend to be something I wasn't. They wanted me to be there to share their happy moments, or there to help them in their bad moments. Not there to convert me, or force me to pretend to be something I'm not.
 
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