As an unbeliever these are the churches i will only visit and sit through services

[BeatMan]

so yes i will visit a church when invited unless they are one of the following.




Roman Catholic

European based churches like the Anglican Communion, Lutheran Churches, State Church of Denmark and their overseas branches like this one http://www.dlctoronto.on.ca/ Church of Norway, Hungarian Reformed Church, etc

Eastern Orthodox Churches, Armenian Apostolic Churches, Coptic Orthodox Church(Egypt), Ethiopian Orthodox Church,

Eastern Catholic Churches of the East, like the Assyrian, Chaldean, Maronite, and the St Thomas Churches In India.



fortunately my gf is a member of this church http://www.tsbc.org/#/about-us which is part of the Canadian baptists of Ontario and Quebec.

 

[MMMariah]

why nitpick when they all pretty much believe the same shit?

 

[BeatMan]

not exactly. these churches are not like the American end times obsessed, Pentecostal, born again, charismatic types that believe in the rapture, using Israel and Jews to bring about the secong coming, etc

 

[Jack Davenport]

lol @ God deniers

 

[BeatMan]

how do you deny something you believe don't exist?

 

[Jack Davenport]

how do you deny something you believe don't exist?

:rofl2:

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

 

[GodsEmbryo]

lol @ believers

:rofl2:

 

[Jack Davenport]

Yeah, we've heard.

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

I went to Mass several times recently. A recurring theme of the services were explaining why the pews were so empty. Every time the weight was put on former congregants walking away from God and not people still having God in their hearts not acknowledging The Church as a House Of God anymore. I criticize the Catholic Church fairly often but I truly wish they would rehabilitate themselves. I don't know how cooperative or how many hoops they would have to jump through to make people trust them again. I still think having biological retards who don't understand their own wieners frolicking around is asking for trouble.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

I went to Mass several times recently. A recurring theme of the services were explaining why the pews were so empty. Every time the weight was put on former congregants walking away from God and not people still having God in their hearts not acknowledging The Church as a House Of God anymore. I criticize the Catholic Church fairly often but I truly wish they would rehabilitate themselves. I don't know how cooperative or how many hoops they would have to jump through to make people trust them again. I still think having biological retards who don't understand their own wieners frolicking around is asking for trouble.

Religion would gain more respect if it's believers would mind their own business I think. If a woman is against abortion for example because of a belief, then she has all right to not do it if she was in such a situation, but she shouldn't say or demand others can't do it. There's way to many Youtube-videos, articles and news about religious demanding how the world should be run, and how wrong the others are, or what the other should not do. I'm actually not surprised if you say their was to much talking about former congregant walking away instead of celebrating a belief with the people who still do.

 

[Jack Davenport]

Religion would gain more respect if it's believers would mind their own business I think. If a woman is against abortion for example because of a belief, then she has all right to not do it if she was in such a situation, but she shouldn't say or demand others can't do it. There's way to many Youtube-videos, articles and news about religious demanding how the world should be run, and how wrong the others are, or what the other should not do. I'm actually not surprised if you say their was to much talking about former congregant walking away instead of celebrating a belief with the people who still do.

What I put in bold demonstrates the complete lack of understanding of religion.
In just about every major religion a great emphasis is put upon conversion, be it Christian or Muslim. Now. It may offend you greatly that someone from a particular faith may try and convert you but it is one of the general rules that as a practitioner of religion X that you should spread the word.

While I understand your resistance to that as a non believer. for a person of faith not to do so is violating one of the basic teachings of the Bible and Qu'ran. That will never happen in any society unless it is within a communist society where the state forbids the free exercise of religious belief and expression.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

What I put in bold demonstrates the complete lack of understanding of religion.
In just about every major religion a great emphasis is put upon conversion, be it Christian or Muslim. Now. It may offend you greatly that someone from a particular faith may try and convert you but it is one of the general rules that as a practitioner of religion X that you should spread the word.

While I understand your resistance to that as a non believer. for a person of faith not to do so is violating one of the basic teachings of the Bible and Qu'ran. That will never happen in any society unless it is within a communist society where the state forbids the free exercise of religious belief and expression.

Yeah that's true and I'm aware of that, it's not a lack of understanding. I think there's a big difference between someone knocking on my door asking if he could talk to me about Jesus, and demonstrations against gays with signs saying they should be killed and attempts to legalies anti-gay laws. Or attempts to change education with the teaching of creationism to give another example. I experience the first as respectful and I'm always interested to hear why people believe or what it means to them. I find it very enriching to hear all these views. As long as they also respect my view on life and religion. If they want to debate or convince me I will listen and we will share arguments. The other examples however are pushing a personal believesystem onto others with a complete lack of understanding and disrespecting other views.

Maybe you ever watched the debate between Ken Ham and Bill Ney on Youtube? When asked "what if anything could change your mind?" Ken Ham basically answered "I'm a christian, nothing will change my mind" and Bill Nye basically said "Just one piece of evidence". That pretty much sums up where I'm going with this. From my secular point of view I can only say "I don't know". I can't prove or disprove god, but the evidence provided is insufficient or can be discarded, therefore I don't believe and I choose to live my life that is not based on religious motivation, but based on science, reasoning, logic etc. But this also means that I understand that their are multiple views and as long as they are not harming are disrespectful, I will respect these views. There are however these religious people who say they are right and the rest are wrong and everybody should live they way they live, and think the way they think. How could you expect me to respect that?

And that's what I'm saying. People can believe what they want and live their life accordingly. And they can talk to me about their religion or even try to convert me. But they should not push it onto others. I really do think that if any religion would do that, it would change a lot in the world and religion would have more respect then it has now.

 

[MMMariah]

Religion should be kept to yourself and recruit by example. Let people see you happy and fulfilled and ask you to help them rather than you invading their space and knocking on their door and trying to get them to listen to something they never asked for.
And why do you think it is that the rules of religions are to recruit more people in to same way of thinking? I'd say control, money, power in groups. Some are dumb enough to buy the belief that they are just doing you a favor.

 

[BeatMan]

i will not go to american based rapture ready, born again, charismatic, mega church and similar cultic american based/style churches that usually appear on TV TBN, daystar, and CTS channel 9 in Canada

 

[DP_LOVER]

Yeah that's true and I'm aware of that, it's not a lack of understanding. I think there's a big difference between someone knocking on my door asking if he could talk to me about Jesus, and demonstrations against gays with signs saying they should be killed and attempts to legalies anti-gay laws. Or attempts to change education with the teaching of creationism to give another example. I experience the first as respectful and I'm always interested to hear why people believe or what it means to them. I find it very enriching to hear all these views. As long as they also respect my view on life and religion. If they want to debate or convince me I will listen and we will share arguments. The other examples however are pushing a personal believesystem onto others with a complete lack of understanding and disrespecting other views.

Maybe you ever watched the debate between Ken Ham and Bill Ney on Youtube? When asked "what if anything could change your mind?" Ken Ham basically answered "I'm a christian, nothing will change my mind" and Bill Nye basically said "Just one piece of evidence". That pretty much sums up where I'm going with this. From my secular point of view I can only say "I don't know". I can't prove or disprove god, but the evidence provided is insufficient or can be discarded, therefore I don't believe and I choose to live my life that is not based on religious motivation, but based on science, reasoning, logic etc. But this also means that I understand that their are multiple views and as long as they are not harming are disrespectful, I will respect these views. There are however these religious people who say they are right and the rest are wrong and everybody should live they way they live, and think the way they think. How could you expect me to respect that?

And that's what I'm saying. People can believe what they want and live their life accordingly. And they can talk to me about their religion or even try to convert me. But they should not push it onto others. I really do think that if any religion would do that, it would change a lot in the world and religion would have more respect then it has now.

This.

 

[SabrinaDeep]

Religion would gain more respect if it's believers would mind their own business I think. If a woman is against abortion for example because of a belief, then she has all right to not do it if she was in such a situation, but she shouldn't say or demand others can't do it. There's way to many Youtube-videos, articles and news about religious demanding how the world should be run, and how wrong the others are, or what the other should not do. I'm actually not surprised if you say their was to much talking about former congregant walking away instead of celebrating a belief with the people who still do.

It seems to me that Atheists do everything but minding their own business, when it comes to religion. Maybe if you guys started first, since you allegedly don't give a fuck about religion and don't believe in anything...Seriously...why are you all so obsessed with something that you claim not being part of your life? I've never understood atheists commenting on religious topics. It's an oxymoron. You don't believe in it, you don't respect it and yet you urge to comment on it (ignorantly, of course) at any occasion. Maybe you atheists need something to believe in.

 

[dreschi]

I've never understood atheists commenting on religious topics. It's an oxymoron.

Not necessarily. Why shouldn't an atheist who believes in evolution comment on creationism? I agree that it is pointless for an atheist to comment on inner-religious matters but when it comes to the way religions explain the world, an atheist can call creationism a flawed concept just as well as religious people can call evolution a flawed concept.

That having been said, I think there are fanatics on either side who just cannot accept that different people believe in different things. I really don't think that is just an atheist problem.

 

[GodsEmbryo]

It seems to me that Atheists do everything but minding their own business, when it comes to religion. Maybe if you guys started first, since you allegedly don't give a fuck about religion and don't believe in anything...Seriously...why are you all so obsessed with something that you claim not being part of your life? [...]

Are you saying atheists are not interested in the "big questions" of life? How did it all begin, is there a meaning to life, what will happen when you die, what is out there, is there other life, etc. It would be extremely arrogant to claim only religious have a right to ask those questions and to have a monopoly on the answers. Apart from that we all have our place and responsability in a multicultural and multireligious society. Like Dreschi already pointed out people have a right to point things out they consider flawed or harmfull for the benefit of that society. Do you think we need to shut up when catholic priests abuse children? When muslims slit the throats of journalists? When a bible says women are inferior to men and according to the bible it's ok rape them and stone them to death because of it? Do you really think we need to be silent when religious nutcakes demand anti-gay rights and the right to kill them? The list is endless. And you dare to say we should mind our own business? Yes, we can be moral without god. It only takes not being an idiot to understand that sharing this planet with so many other people is a lot more pleasant when we also share ideas about acceptable behavior. Idiocy and extremism are not amongst those behaviours.

[...] I've never understood atheists commenting on religious topics. It's an oxymoron. You don't believe in it, you don't respect it and yet you urge to comment on it (ignorantly, of course) at any occasion. Maybe you atheists need something to believe in.

You for example don't believe in Alah, are not a muslim. That makes you an atheist towards islam. Yet you didn't find it an oxymoron to create threads to point out the flaws and dangers of this religion. That's very hypocrite of you Sabrina.

 

[SabrinaDeep]

You for example don't believe in Alah, are not a muslim. That makes you an atheist towards islam. Yet you didn't find it an oxymoron to create threads to point out the flaws and dangers of this religion. That's very hypocrite of you Sabrina.

I've never seen so many ignorant statements in just one sentence. Allah means God in arabic, so it's not true that i don't believe in Allah, since i believe in God. There is a deity and then there is religion which is "an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence." A theist believes in a deity and embraces a certain religion. An atheist does not believe in any deity and therefore does not embrace any religion. It's perfectly normal for someone who embraces a certain religion to be interested about and eventually critic towards other religions, I find it less normal for an atheist to be obsessed with something they don't believe in and to discern about how believers should live their relationship with a deity.

DRESCHI - you are totally right about evolution vs creationism, but you said it yourself: atheists seem to be obsessed with inner-religious matters. I don't see in this thread or others much about evolution vs creationism, while i see a lot about how preaching is wrong, personal beliefs should not be shared and stuff like that. As if the atheists were afraid of something they claim they don't believe in.

I know GodsEmbryo will take it personal, now, but i must quote the following because in my opinion it is emblematic of atheists obsession towards what they don't believe in:

If a woman is against abortion for example because of a belief, then she has all right to not do it if she was in such a situation, but she shouldn't say or demand others can't do it.

Why is that? An atheist pro abortion can fight for their beliefs and move lobbies, politicians, media and public opinion to make abortion an acceptable practice, while those who believe that abortion is equal to killing and it shouldn't be allowed they should not support their own beliefs publicly. God has spoken, i guess. An atheist one.
Many atheist are as radical as radical religious people: they would just want to wipe religions away from the face of earth as much as radical christians or muslims would want to wipe atheists and infidels away. They are both dangerous, but personally i tend to be more suspicious towards a radical atheist who wants to wipe a non existing God and everything related to it, than a theist who tries to convert an atheist.