America, the land of freedom!

[Spreeuw]

Hey guys and (some) girls,

In an earlier topic I tried to discuss the ordering of the values of equality, freedom and community. The general consensus seemed to be that everyone who didn´t put freedom on top was not a true american, or perhaps not even a true westerner.
Now I think this opinion is respectable, but there is a slight improvement that might be, to make it more correct.
I think that everyone who said that, assumes that freedom means equal freedom for all. Freedom without that assumption might mean a caste society where the upper caste have absolute freedom (freedom is maximised).
Everyone who ranks freedom as the ultimate value is, in my view, debating with the assumption that equality is already taken care of.
This would mean however that equality is the ultimate social value, and not freedom.
What do you think about this? Are we all secretly egalitarians?

 

[saschaxx]

I don´t know if we´re talking about the same, BUT :

To get PEACE allover the planet, there have to be done 3 things 1st :

For EVERYONE enough ******** water.
For EVERYONE food
For EVERYONE a roof-top to rest .

As far as I know about 50 % of all citizen on this planet do NOT have this . :dunno:

 

[vodkazvictim]

To get peace all over the planet, we simply need to wipe ourselves out.
That's the only way it's gonna happen.

 

[saschaxx]

To get peace all over the planet, we simply need to wipe ourselves out.
That's the only way it's gonna happen.

This is not easy to disagree ...

 

[vodkazvictim]

This is not easy to disagree ...

Conflict is in our nature. Just look at any 3 families, chances are, there'll be a conflict in at least one of them.
And those are people who have the strongest reason to love and coexist peacefully with each other.

 

[saschaxx]

Well, conflicts (in my eyes) , are normal, it depends on how one handles a conflict ....

But about 50% of human beings are suffering cause they dont have no water nor food nor some (thing) to live in, that is NOT normal I believe ...?

In India in some areas you call yourself RICH cause you own a paperbox to live in ....but the fucking govnmt. owns NUKES ...

Here in Germany we would say : * they´re so poor they eat the cement out the windowglasses ...the problem is : They don´t have no windows.

 

[Spreeuw]

Hmm... In fact I was talking about Western/American/Democratic/European values...

But world peace is fine too...
My opinion: impossible!
The basic distinction between enemy and friend is necessary for our own identity. Just look at **** who understand this very basic distinction by instinct.

 

[saschaxx]

....but well, we were talking about America, the land of WHAT PLEASE ????

 

[pixar]

I don´t know if we´re talking about the same, BUT :

To get PEACE allover the planet, there have to be done 3 things 1st :

For EVERYONE enough ******** water.
For EVERYONE food
For EVERYONE a roof-top to rest .

As far as I know about 50 % of all citizen on this planet do NOT have this . :dunno:

As much as I would like to see this happen, man by definition is flawed and greed and materialism will never let this happen.

 

[saschaxx]

@Spreeuw : Okidoki, we´re both sitting in Europe, we´re neighbors + because we are we´re in a very comfortable situation ....Both of our states belong to the richest of the planet .

We got tears in our eyes on a veeeeerryyy high level ....

Like maybe : Yesterday I had to sell my rolex cause there was no money left on my account to pay electricity ....but after selling the rolex there was some money left to buy a tissot....

Millions of ppl. even dont know how to write * electricity * ....

 

[Red Spyder]

Conflict is in our nature. Just look at any 3 families, chances are, there'll be a conflict in at least one of them.
And those are people who have the strongest reason to love and coexist peacefully with each other.

For some reason I had to read that first sentence with Solid Snake's voice...

Anyway, America really is the land of freedom. You can get in your car and drive from coast to coast, or at least you could have when gas wasn't so expensive, without having to go through a checkpoint every 40 miles where some uniformed guy asks you for your "papers", can you imagine trying to do that in the old soviet union? Heck, you can even drive OUT of the country without anyone stopping you on your way out, can you do that if you're North Korean trying to leave to China?

If you're gay, you don't have to stay in the closet, nobody can discriminate against you or they're the ones in trouble, if you're gay, can you come out of the closet in Saudi Arabia? Yeah, then here comes the religious police to ****** you. Even in Central America, where even though homosexuality is not a crime punishable by *********, gay people can get ******** almost with impunity.

Then comes freedom of speech, where we can fucking say whatever the fuck we want to say (though at least not in the FCC controlled airwaves) and express ourselves almost anyway we want (just watch out you don't comit libel or slander), and I'm glad America is not the only place that values freedome of speech, I mean, Freeones is based where? Somewhere in Europe and here we are in a forum talking about our favorite women who just happen to do their jobs naked! Again, would there be something like this in any repressive society?

This is a land where you have the freedome to live anyway you want to live as long as you don't hurt others. :nanner:

 

[saschaxx]

This is a land where you have the freedome to live anyway you want to live as long as you don't hurt others. :nanner:

Sure, and the USA don´t hurt others at all, especially not their own ppl. (sponsored for example by Madoff`s , Lehman Bros. and another 200 azzholes to mention ) :drool1::drool1:

 

[saschaxx]

....and you said : you can DRIVE .

HOW can you drive , with max. speed of 70 miles / hr. ?? I need to cut off the upper 3 gears of my car .

And if I had US-gaz prices I´d drive a 12 cyl. Lamborghini. Just for info : We´re paying $ 8,25 per gallon ...questions ?

 

[Atar554]

You have the Freedom to do much of anything you'd want. Provided what you're doing doesn't infringe on the rights of others.

You also have the right to fail, be ignored and otherwise tossed aside.

Freedom doesn't exactly mean "fair". Though the two get mixed up together in some people's minds.

 

[Spreeuw]

Well for those of you that didn't read my OP:

This topic is supposed to be about the relationship between freedom and equality.
In an earlier topic almost everyone chose freedom above equality.
But I think that's because everyone who did that assumed that freedom automatically means equal freedom for all. Freedom without equality (of freedom) seems te be worthless (like in a Caste System).
Your 2 cents please.

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

Freedom < Equality < Capitalism

 

[Will E Worm]

The general consensus seemed to be that everyone who didn´t put freedom on top was not a true american.

Yes.

One correction, not a true human. :hatsoff:

 

[CunningStunts]

Yes.

One correction, not a true human. :hatsoff:

Or a weakling who wants everyone to be "equal" because they can't produce on their own. :2 cents:

 

[lurkingdirk]

Or a weakling who wants everyone to be "equal" because they can't produce on their own. :2 cents:

So everyone who wants equality is weak?